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Quote from: Stodgy on April 08, 2009, 12:27 PMUK Bike Co is financed and owned by Avocet (i.e. Coyote, etc).Darren instead owns the intellectual property - i.e. the rights to the frame designs and to market the heat-treating process in UK and Europe.Darren is no longer at UK Bike Co, but the latest batch of revised Evolutions, Revolutions, bars and forks are on their way over as I write this. So the company is still continuing and still honoring any warranty issues. How can Avocet continue selling ukbikeco stuff if Darren owns these intellectual property rights?
UK Bike Co is financed and owned by Avocet (i.e. Coyote, etc).Darren instead owns the intellectual property - i.e. the rights to the frame designs and to market the heat-treating process in UK and Europe.Darren is no longer at UK Bike Co, but the latest batch of revised Evolutions, Revolutions, bars and forks are on their way over as I write this. So the company is still continuing and still honoring any warranty issues.
Quote from: OrgasmDonor on April 09, 2009, 12:26 AMQuote from: JT71 on April 08, 2009, 04:25 PMyeah man x3there's always me wallowing in the sadness of the situation i cause myself and wantingeveryone else to feel empty like me and have nothing better to do with my time than infest those who enjoy the sport with negativity.......oops, the truth is out. not trying to infest the sport with negativity but Dibly essentially called myself and Phil liars and I didn't see any of you saying "hang on Dibly, Joe & Phil are sounds guys, what are you saying?", and yes I do bear a grudge, so it's only fair that when he get's found out I get to call him a liar. Which he is.Eye for an eye and all that. But still I love it that you all want to twist it so Avocet and the Taiwanese suppliers are the bad guys in this and that well known rider who owned the companyis just an innocent victim.FACT: he claimed it was a rider owned company and that's bollocks he worked for Avocet and got paid by them. If he didn't he couldn't have been fired.He also kept insisting that only 3 frames ever got returned instead of coming straight out and saying "the first batch is flawed, expect to hear a lot of frames are damaged, but don't worry we're sorting it out."I'm sure if he can get the funds to start up with his designs, which I'm guessing is the legal complication, adds half a pound in tube thickness and rebrands he'll no doubt be back with a slightly heavier but much stronger frame and I honestly wish him luck in that, he should be applauded for trying, but be honest.
Quote from: JT71 on April 08, 2009, 04:25 PMyeah man x3there's always me wallowing in the sadness of the situation i cause myself and wantingeveryone else to feel empty like me and have nothing better to do with my time than infest those who enjoy the sport with negativity.......oops, the truth is out.
yeah man x3there's always me wallowing in the sadness of the situation i cause myself and wantingeveryone else to feel empty like me and have nothing better to do with my time than infest those who enjoy the sport with negativity.......oops, the truth is out.
Okay...I've spoken to Darren (Dibly) and he's said it's fine for me to tell. I've tried to keep it in small factual statements below.To clarify, UK Bike Co is financed and owned by Avocet (i.e. Coyote, etc). So Darren doesn't own the company.Darren instead owns the intellectual property - i.e. the rights to the frame designs and to market the heat-treating process in UK and Europe. So basically the rights to the product and ran the company solely.Sales for UK Bike Co frames have been awesome over the past 6 months, outselling every other brand. So in terms of fulfilling his role, Darren has done a good job.The rumors are right, Darren is no longer at UK Bike Co. He returned from Taiwan to find that, due to a number of factors, there was no job for him any more. There are numerous factors behind this decision; cost-cutting, lack of understanding of the high-end BMX market, and also the fact that Darren was asked not to go to Taiwan by the management of Avocet. So basically he disobeyed a direct order.Darren has received a lot of flak about 'cracking frames' and 'he doesn't care' etc, but the reason he went to Taiwan was to take control of these issues and ensure that they don't happen again, despite the risk of losing his job. So, he paid the price for this dedication to ensure the product was spot on going forward.So, there we have it. Darren is no longer at UK Bike Co, but the latest batch of revised Evolutions, Revolutions, bars and forks are on their way over as I write this. So the company is still continuing and still honoring any warranty issues. The product is still good, so do buy one if you've been after one...but who knows where a low-end company like Avocet will take it? If I was buying a frame at the moment my money would go on a more established brand until the water settles.Any questions I'll do my best to answer, but due to legal reasons it's difficult for Darren to do so.
if he made any money, he should invest it in manufacturing frames in the UK. mass production abroad was a big balls step to try and realise.
but at the end of the day, people should buy product based on whether they like it or not, not because of who owns the company.
Quote from: mike@dialledbikes on April 09, 2009, 09:45 PMbut at the end of the day, people should buy product based on whether they like it or not, not because of who owns the company.what you trying to tell us about Dialled, Mike?
Quote from: J.T.Racing on April 10, 2009, 12:40 AMif he made any money, he should invest it in manufacturing frames in the UK. mass production abroad was a big balls step to try and realise.Sad to say, but making bike frames in volume in the UK isn't a viable proposition. Finding someone who can mass produce quality bike frames in the UK is nigh on impossible. Even if you can find someone, the retail price would be too expensive for most people.Manufacturing overseas is actually a lot easier and less expensive than manufacturing in the UK. This doesn't necessarily mean Taiwan. I've been looking into some US and Canadian options recently.
Quote from: mike@dialledbikes on April 10, 2009, 09:05 AMQuote from: J.T.Racing on April 10, 2009, 12:40 AMif he made any money, he should invest it in manufacturing frames in the UK. mass production abroad was a big balls step to try and realise.Sad to say, but making bike frames in volume in the UK isn't a viable proposition. Finding someone who can mass produce quality bike frames in the UK is nigh on impossible. Even if you can find someone, the retail price would be too expensive for most people.Manufacturing overseas is actually a lot easier and less expensive than manufacturing in the UK. This doesn't necessarily mean Taiwan. I've been looking into some US and Canadian options recently.not if you do it in house. polish will work for minimum wage or just above and some of them are very skilled. Paying a factory to make them means if it costs 50 they want 100+ and that will not work. £60+ per hour labour and the rest. You need to manufacture yourself to make the most money. Far east production can be far cheaper, but it's better in bulk. Too many companies want to squeeze every last cent out of the retail market with cheap far east manufacturing. The west has been digging a hole for itself for a long time with this short sighted get rich quick attitude.
I can say that I do not hear any comments about the other bike brands that came out of the same factory that also have had so much bother. Maybe someone can tell me those brands??? - what have you to say about their situation? What I can say is I am aware of 2 batches of frames of another top brand from the same factory have had bother also- and I mean a lot of returns but I certainly have not seen the same slanderous comments about them.
not if you do it in house. polish will work for minimum wage or just above and some of them are very skilled. Paying a factory to make them means if it costs 50 they want 100+ and that will not work. £60+ per hour labour and the rest. You need to manufacture yourself to make the most money. Far east production can be far cheaper, but it's better in bulk. Too many companies want to squeeze every last cent out of the retail market with cheap far east manufacturing. The west has been digging a hole for itself for a long time with this short sighted get rich quick attitude.
I think if doing things in-house was that easy, Raleigh, Rickman, DP, Beyond, Zima and Hidden Nation would still be around, but sadly aren't.
Quote from: mike@dialledbikes on April 14, 2009, 10:23 AMI think if doing things in-house was that easy, Raleigh, Rickman, DP, Beyond, Zima and Hidden Nation would still be around, but sadly aren't.MikeYou are dead right but I think there is also the "fashion" thing too. No one would buy a Rickman, Raleigh, DP or Curtis at the moment cos they dont have a team of cool riders and a kickin image for themselves*. Kids now dont mind where their bikes are made, as long as they look good on them at the skatepark (this includes having the right weight on the frame spec). Im not saying that they would pay more for a UK made frame, but a company has to have something the kids want to buy into from the start.*This isnt a good thing, its just how it is