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Technical & Reference Section => Tech and Restoration => Topic started by: sicura on April 02, 2012, 06:21 PM
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Hi,
I picked this up the other day and wondered if it is a real Kuwahara.
I had one before that had a small hole in the right hand gusset, which this one does not.
The serial number on the bottom is T2L5572
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/sicura1/photo.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/sicura1/photo2.jpg)
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yep its a real one,good survivor.
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Thanks,
I appreciate your help.
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Ooh nice. :coolsmiley:
I think this is where the Kuwahara frame identity gets confusing at times though.
I'd say this is a 1982 KYZ looptail cos of the serial number and it's chrome, yet it does not have the second smaller gusset hole (which the KZ-1, KZ-2 always have and KYZ usually has). It could have had the hole filled I guess(?) ready to create a looptail E.T. but then got left with chrome finish?
The only way to tell would be to compare the weight with an E.T. the half cro-moly KYZ would be lighter than the High tensile steel E.T.
There are some really interesting posts on BMXmuseum about all this (especially Gooser who has really done his research and knows his stuff)
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Thats an ace survivor mate you lucky guy :daumenhoch:
My next build will be an ET if im lucky enough to find one ;) Your chrome work looks like it will polish up perfect if you take your time and do it right :coolsmiley:
Whats the strory behind the Kewi then? yours from a youngen or new purchase?
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Ooh nice. :coolsmiley:
I think this is where the Kuwahara frame identity gets confusing at times though.
I'd say this is a 1982 KYZ looptail cos of the serial number and it's chrome, yet it does not have the second smaller gusset hole (which the KZ-1, KZ-2 always have and KYZ usually has). It could have had the hole filled I guess(?) ready to create a looptail E.T. but then got left with chrome finish?
The only way to tell would be to compare the weight with an E.T. the half cro-moly KYZ would be lighter than the High tensile steel E.T.
There are some really interesting posts on BMXmuseum about all this (especially Gooser who has really done his research and knows his stuff)
Wow how did you arrive at this?
It could have had the hole filled I guess(?) ready to create a looptail E.T. but then got left with chrome finish?
That has to be the most unlikely scenario ever :LolLolLolLol:
It's a KYZ which as far as I know didn't have the extra hole, that bike is almost 100% og, have a look at this ad from Jamies Kuwahara site:
(http://www.dreamgate.ne.jp/kuwahara/oldads/kyz_acs.jpg)
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Yeah I've seen that ad, and yes as a newbie I didn't know if the chrome finish could be applied to a filled in hole. OK unlikely, BUT I'm sure I've read that people do get rid of the smaller hole in KYZ frames and then powder coat/paint in E.T. colours...
Perhaps I have been reading Goosers info on bmxmuseum too much. He is not UK/Europe based and the KYZ he knows had the same right hand smaller gusset hole, and this is shown on the original 1982 factory spec sheet from Kuwahara (and it was called the KE-1 which is another story and leads to even more confusion as we all call the original 1979 Kuwahara bike a KE-1).
There was one that sold on the bay recently that looked almost identical to the ad and sicura's bike above. It was a 1982 chrome looptail AND had the right hand gusset small hole. I'll link it in a mo'
EDIT: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120880557465'ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
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Yeah I've seen that ad, and yes as a newbie I didn't know if the chrome finish could be applied to a filled in hole. OK unlikely, BUT I'm sure I've read that people do get rid of the smaller hole in KYZ frames and then powder coat/paint in E.T. colours...
Perhaps I have been reading Goosers info on bmxmuseum too much. He is not UK/Europe based and the KYZ he knows had the same right hand smaller gusset hole, and this is shown on the original 1982 factory spec sheet from Kuwahara (and it was called the KE-1 which is another story and leads to even more confusion as we all call the original 1979 Kuwahara bike a KE-1).
There was one that sold on the bay recently that looked almost identical to the ad and sicura's bike above. It was a 1982 chrome looptail AND had the right hand gusset small hole. I'll link it in a mo'
EDIT: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120880557465'ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Yeah, deffo too much time on the consipracy site ;)
According to Jamie's site http://www.dreamgate.ne.jp/kuwahara/ that model is detailed as "An old advertisement from around 1984 out of a UK BMX magazine featuring the KYZ bike with ACS Z-Rims. The KYZ or sometimes called the KY Thrasher depending on your part of the world used the same frame as the ET bikes but in chrome and featured a chromoly front half and forks with a high-tensile steel rear frame with loop tail. The riders name is Ralph Tribe from the UK."
So you are close but I would "imagine" they just used the left side gussets on both sides for these and the ET frames and didn't weld them up or fill them with anything and for the late ones used the ones with the holes in as that may have been what they had available (this happened a lot bitd). Only the good old boys think that anything surreptitious would be done to "fake" a frame when in actual fact that rarely happens. Another reason why I stay away from that place.
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Cool. 8) Anyway we both agree it's a 1982 KYZ looptail.
I didn't realise the BMXmuseum was a place of such ill-repute :daumenhoch:
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Cool. 8) Anyway we both agree it's a 1982 KYZ looptail.
I didn't realise the BMXmuseum was a place of such ill-repute :daumenhoch:
Agreed ;)
It's probably not [that place] but everytime I have been on there I have seen keyboard warriors, trolls and flamers who seem to think that without having been there and seen it for themselves actually know what happened in bike shops and factories and that only their opinion is right the one. I don't like being in places where it's primarily negative so I stay away ;)
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There are 2 of these in the Rad museum
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Thanks for all your help with this.
Sounds like I might have had a result.
Brought it off a fella in London last Saturday for £50.00 - one for my son to ride!!
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i had that exact bike btd rode it for years then left it at my last house GUTTED was an understatment.
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I like to think I know a little on Kuwahara's. But the KYZ and ET thing has always been puzzling.
These T2 serial number KYZ's could then get stripped of their Chrome then painted as an ET and no one would know the difference, or would they? Am I right in saying some KYZ's have a second hole and some don't? I thought most KYZ's were T3 serial, which is one give-a-way. As I too would be gutted if I bought a T2 serial ET and it turned out to be a KYZ. Are the forks different, I know the Laserlite forks are different to an ET.
Does anyone know how you can tell them apart?
Maybe I should put this in another thread. :-\
:daumenhoch:
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The KYZ has different forks to the E.T. and I think is part cromo where as the E.T. is hi-tensile steel.
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Hi,
Any ideas on how to clean the chrome? it looks lke it may have been cleaned with wire wool as there are a lot of little scratches on it.
Any advise would be appreciated.
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Peek chrome polish is good :)
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Am I right in saying some KYZ's have a second hole and some don't?
From the reading I have done and bikes i have seen pictures of, yes you are right, hence my post above. Some have 2 holes, some 1.
Kuwahara/Tange started making them in 1982 and they were given the official model name of KE-1 (the original 1979 Kuwahara Bike was never given this model number designation apparently).
It then looks like sometime in 1983 the KYZ name stuck, even on the official ads in UK magazines, and was also known as the KY Thrasher is some territories as stated by MartyC above. Some people call them a Chrome ET but as others have said they are half chrome-moly and the geometry is apparently ever so subtly different to the steel ET bikes.
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I passed the advert to Jamie along with a few others and I have to say looking at the bike you picked up, looks like only the zeds and seat may have been changed. A bargain indeed.
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Hi,
Any ideas on how to clean the chrome? it looks lke it may have been cleaned with wire wool as there are a lot of little scratches on it.
Any advise would be appreciated.
Check out Bendycat's 'how the Goose got cooked' thread' for a comprehensive guide to reviving old chrome.
http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php'topic=120674.0
Lovely survivor BTW...
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Nice one Ozone,
I will get cleaning!!
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Great bargain score Sicura :4_17_5:
Used to like that Kuwi ad too :)
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If you picked up both frames one would be lighter than the other I guess!
What are the give away with the forks?
The KYZ has different forks to the E.T. and I think is part cromo where as the E.T. is hi-tensile steel.
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i have a 1982 kyz survivor exactly the same as in that ad higher up with the z rims on all og parts apart from tyres and its got the hole in the gusset, heres mine
(http://www.gbwatches.com/bmx/glenskuwi.jpg)
i think they used the et frames they had left chromed them after and sold them as normal kuwaharas but don't quote me on that ;D
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You bought that one off ebay last week I was going to have a dabble on it myself.
Nice price aswell :daumenhoch:
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yep thats it,its nice , better order than it looked i think he photographed it with the flash on ,and virtually all orig parts still on it
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Well done glenboy. I was after that too but £250 was my limit. It had gone up and down like a yo-yo with bids being retracted etc. and I was hoping people wouldn't touch it after that. It looked so close to that KYZ ad too...
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stoopid nice
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yep thats it,its nice , better order than it looked i think he photographed it with the flash on ,and virtually all orig parts still on it
What's the serial on yours? You don't have to be too specific if you don't want to - just a year and month might help.
I might get shot down for saying this but here goes...
Both yours and Sicura's bikes are KYZ's, everyone's agreed on that. Sicura's has the ET style small hole gusset (oo-err) but yours has a KZ-1 larger diameter gusset and smaller hole for cable routing. The theory is that there were loads of ET frames left over that wouldn't sell so they chromed them and sold them as KYZ's.
Maybe they ran out of ET sized gussets and started using KZ-1 gussets to complete the frame sets - a bit like when Skyway only had one side of fork dropout left over but used them on both sides. Apart from the gussets, the frames are identical aren't they?
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i reckon you're spot on ozone as that advert is from 1984 and the frames were made in 1982 my serial is T2E0873
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You two might just have cracked it Glenboys is T2E which is May 1982 right? Sicuras is T2L which is Dec 1982?
Could be the earlier ones all have the KZ gussets and the later have ET style?
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put some info and pics of my kyz now in this thread
http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php'topic=142945.0
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I passed the advert to Jamie along with a few others and I have to say looking at the bike you picked up, looks like only the zeds and seat may have been changed. A bargain indeed.
I thought I saw your name on Jamies site Frosty :daumenhoch: