Author Topic: Your comments please Gentlemen (Read 2338 times)

paullightowler · « **on:** November 26, 2009, 09:21 PM »

Hi Guys,

I have had a load of help and advice on this frame (you know who you are guys, thanks)

I thought i would post it up for some comments (all are welcome)

Gonna get it restored and i was thinking of white with new decals ?

I have been told its a Californian full cromo, maybe a prototype because of the dropouts.

It also weighs the same as a Supergoose/ touch lighter but does not have 3 holes in the brake bridge and has the thinner rear triangle tubing.

The stickers are repop by the guy i bought off so ignore them.

Can anybody give a definative answer on reading the serial number.

Cheers all

southern andy · « **Reply #1 on:** November 26, 2009, 09:26 PM »

That date is right on the change over from Gusset goose to Non Gusset goose.

April 1983.

Here's mine but it is a very late gusset model

paullightowler · « **Reply #2 on:** November 26, 2009, 09:38 PM »

Cheers

Anybody seen those kind of rear dropouts before ?

bobafett · « **Reply #3 on:** November 26, 2009, 09:39 PM »

I've chatted with Paul about this frame both via PM on here and on vintage - my 2 peneth for what it's worth :

1. The lack of additional holes in the brake bridge and thinner rear tubing mean it is not a standard USA supergoose 3
2. The dae means it is too early to be a UK supergoose
3. The fact that it is so early and yet so light and the position were the seat stays meet the seat tube should rule out a tri-moly cali
4. The dropouts are different to 83 cali and supergoose frames

Conclusion - fook knows

It's earlier than any other recorded californian frame that's registered with vintagemongoose.com and yet does not share the rear tube geometry of a super and then there's those dropouts.

My final thoughts were that it could be a cali prototype

Whatever it is..... it is quite unique and i would leave it in it's original chrome to keep it as original as poss

paullightowler · « **Reply #4 on:** November 26, 2009, 09:44 PM »

John

I did believe you mate, but i had to post it as i was excited by your comments.

The guys at vintage mongoose said very similar.

I had a good chat with Neil about what to do with the frame but now you have really thrown a spanner in the works !!!!!

bobafett · « **Reply #5 on:** November 26, 2009, 09:52 PM »

Always good to get as many opinions as possible Paul - especially on such an unusual frame

I really wouldn't re-finish it mate, it would be a crime in my opinion.

I'd rather buy you another cali to play with and buy this one off you just to preserve it mate - and that's the truth

But at the end of the day bud - it's yours to do what you want with

Back on the topic of the dropouts, the only thing they even look close to out of the mongoose range are the mongoose "twofour" cruiser dropouts - similar angle and shape but 3 holes rather than 2 and without that slight "dip" in the top of the plate. $:-\$

safc1 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 26, 2009, 10:00 PM »

i love a goose

that one needs loving and cherishing, no idea what it is though

lodge · « **Reply #7 on:** November 26, 2009, 10:05 PM »

Could be a custom frame specced for a factory rider, would be a shame to lose the original chrome on a unique frame like that.

James Nada · « **Reply #8 on:** November 26, 2009, 10:07 PM »

Gotta agree with bobafett - that should be preserved.

I'm sure Mongoose did this sort of thing knowing that 25 years later people would be confused!

monkian · « **Reply #9 on:** November 26, 2009, 10:17 PM »

I'd have to listen to these boys if I were you. It sounds like you've something potentially a bit special there.
I'm sure there's folk on here who could do wonders on the original chrome to bring it back to life

bobafett · « **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2010, 11:51 PM »

Right then.........

It's been a while since this was first posted up but, Paul, I have finally identified your dropouts and............

They are blue max ones !

They are the dropouts found on the late 82 - 83 iron cross gusset blue max frames.

What they are doing on a cali frame dated April 83 fook knows ! I can only now assume that it was a welder's error BITD as he grabbed the wrong dropouts during a very early production run of the calis.

And therefore a freak frame ! Very unique

But they're deffo 82/83 gusset blue max frame dropouts - take a look........

Same shallow step down in the top plate and downward angle of the axle slot

PS...........

How's the resto coming along ?

Are you keeping it as a survivor frame ? What did you decide in the end mate ?

monkian · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2010, 12:07 AM »

Great work Holmes

Are you saying it's effectively an Iron Cross gusset Blue Max without the gusset or am I reading it wrong?

Whatever it is

NORTY40 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2010, 12:39 AM »

Nice unusual frame mate

Did you heed 'jongoose's and other radsters advice and keep the chrome

John , how many late nights have you had trying to work this one out

Knew you would get there in the end

bobafett · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2010, 07:31 AM »

Quote from: monkian on January 22, 2010, 12:07 AM

Are you saying it's effectively an Iron Cross gusset Blue Max without the gusset or am I reading it wrong?

Well....

The way the rear stays meet the top of the seat tube is closer to a how gusset bluemax than that of a cali of the same era as well so I guess effectively it's like the rear triangle is from an 83 gusset blue max and the front triangle is from a cali !

Prototype frame ?

Welder's mistake ?

Either way that's what it's made up of

James Nada · « **Reply #14 on:** January 22, 2010, 08:11 AM »

Great investagative work there Mr Fett!

Now, someone make sure this "CaliMax" is cared for.

bobafett · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2010, 08:17 AM »

Quote from: James Nada on January 22, 2010, 08:11 AM

Now, someone make sure this "CaliMax" is cared for.

"CaliMax" LOL ! I like that

kdw712 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 22, 2010, 09:35 AM »

good spot john

you can sleep again at nights now

well until the next case comes along

Coastvl · « **Reply #17 on:** January 22, 2010, 11:38 AM »

Umm, This frame is a 1984 Blue Max.
http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/bmx_products_inc/7775

bobafett · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2010, 11:58 AM »

Quote from: coasty on January 22, 2010, 11:38 AM

Umm, This frame is a 1984 Blue Max.
http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/bmx_products_inc/7775

Yep but that one has the standard step down dropouts like on a cali (i.e. deeper step down in the top plate of the dropout and axle slot is parallel to the ground not angled down)

Coastvl · « **Reply #19 on:** January 22, 2010, 12:07 PM »

Yep I see that now. I'm guessin being the changover model in 83 it has the gussett model dropouts on a no-gussett frame. Sweet!

monkian · « **Reply #20 on:** January 22, 2010, 04:47 PM »

I was just looking at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/80s-MONGOOSE-M-1-BMX-Expert-Looptail-Torker-GT_W0QQitemZ150406907121
To my untrained eye there seems to be some similarities. The Serial stamp being an obvious issue.

What do you think? $:-\$

monkian · « **Reply #21 on:** January 22, 2010, 04:50 PM »

Quote from: monkian on January 22, 2010, 04:47 PM

I was just looking at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/80s-MONGOOSE-M-1-BMX-Expert-Looptail-Torker-GT_W0QQitemZ150406907121
To my untrained eye there seems to be some similarities. The Serial stamp being an obvious issue.

What do you think? $:-\$

Looking closer it's a different shape

Scrap that

bobafett · « **Reply #22 on:** January 22, 2010, 05:03 PM »

Quote from: monkian on January 22, 2010, 04:50 PM

Looking closer it's a different shape
Scrap that

Yep standard "step down" drop outs on that bud - with the axle slot parallel to the ground

paullightowler · « **Reply #23 on:** January 22, 2010, 10:16 PM »

Wow what a response !!!!!

John, you lived up to your reputation as king of all things mongoose !

So... What is it for definate and how unusual or have I got just some strange cock up ?

I have been collecting parts and getting some wheels refurbed, new Suzue hubs, Asahi etc

Got an original Mongoose stem and cranks, pro class bars etc etc.

I havnt done anything with the frame yet as I want to get it right.

The chrome is in bad shape so I am tempted to get it re chrome but still not sure !