*** MK10 - Show & Shine Rules - A little debate... ***

[G]

I've always been confused over the choice of the 'Best in Show'. Surely it should be the best of the class winners. Any chance this could happen for MK 10?

G.

[brass monkey!]

my thoughts:

first, my Nomura came 2nd in the OS Race Section last year, I made some significant changes, and well...you know the rest

second, Radmans bikes win something every year, if you could not show a bike that had won before he wouldn't have a bike in the comp..

so....I would say that a bike that had been re-vamped could be entered in the next year, but how do you keep track of parts?

lastly, anyone got a Vector Freestyle Unlimited ? I want one for the 'crack' ! 

[pickle]

I might be way off here but I don't get what all the fuss is about?

Do people who build bikes do so just to win a prize?  Surely not??
For me the whole spirit of the event is show all the builds good or bad, let people see them
And who cares about winning........if we all looked at our builds and thought that it'll never win so I won't bother
We'd end up with about 30 bikes to look at.

For me all are welcome and those people who do the judging do a bloomin great job that I for
One don't envy

[greentoad]

Hi all

Hope the following may help, and Pickle pretty much sums it up.

I have been out of the BMX scene for a couple of years now with a look in every now and again and had a great time on Saturday, partly because of the displays, non commercial vibe and great atmosphere.

A S&S is just that, and no way should bikes that have been entered before be excluded whether they have won before or not - what happens if a bike is sold?

I have been into VW's again for a while and have won two great and special awards this year.

I was not expecting anything at either events but was very pleased for the vehicle being recognised and acknowledged as that is the only reason I wanted to display it. (Surely this should be the same for BMX).

I will no longer be in a show / concours whilst the item is in my ownership, that is my decision and choice. My VW was Judged by staff from Camper & Bus (a Volksworld mag) at Big Bang  - a show were Judges choose what they like and appreciate, and then also won Concours at Stanford Hall.

The Stanford win I am very happy about as the judging is split into 7 sections with 20 points each - so a maximum score can be reached of 140 points. The sections are paint and panels, exterior trim, wheels and tyres, underbody, interior, luggage compartment, engine and engine compartment. You can also recieve penalty points - not licensed, trailered in, ill fitting or unsuitable accessories, missing toolkit etc. A similar thing could be done within BMX.

An interesting thing about Stanford is that the best of group / catorgory then go forward the following year and battle it out in the Super Class.

So you would have a Super Class were previous winners all battle it out, and the other bikes all battle it out for Best in Group to get into the Super Class Arena the following year.

Detials below.

http://www.stanfordhallvw.co.uk/concours.htm

I think most Concours run similarly.

Great bikes though, great show, great company, and great times, so thanks.

J.

[thebigdog]

I think you lot got the judging about right. Must be hard

I would agree on the mid-school thing though. If an 87 Master, an 87 GT PFT Team or an 87 RL20II had won it the S&M and Standard owners would have been puzzled.

God knows how you sort it out though.

[crazycraig]

Show us ya  van then greentoad 

[Bob_Acid]

It's not an easy task, it took the three of us a good four hours of solid hunting and discussion, working our way through the different bikes on display. Then getting together and debating our finds.

It's the attention to detail. There were bikes in my top 2 early on in various classes that i had to drop later after close scrutiny due to the wrong tyres or reproduction parts. When you're up against bikes like those that won the class you can't expect the judges to turn a blind eye to your rainbow label comp 3 or your late Ame grips when someone else has gone to the trouble of sourcing a pair of yellow label comp 2 or 3. I know it's anal but that's the nature of the beast.

A couple of things we were very short on this year were Mid skool and retro. Some of what i'd consider Mid skool bikes were labeled up as OS and would have had a better chance in the mid, late Masters, mongoose and such.

All that points stuff would take to long but i do like the idea of a master class 

[Moschops]

If the same bike keeps on winning, then all the competition need's to pull it's socks up. I cant see eliminating bikes/competitors for next year being a step forwards.

The only sport I can think of that penalizes the best competitors is Golf with it's handicap system, I for one wouldn't want to try and figure out some sort of handicap system for show n shine. But that is perhaps the only solution, that would seem any way near fair.

Well done you won....don't come back.......that isn't inspiring me to build a bike



 

[RATTY]

Its a pointless debate, its like stopping Boff from racing just because he won last year. If you want to win, build a better bike, simples

[Gashead]

Well said Bob  and Ratty too for that matter !

Despite my bloody Curtis Cruiser not winning (with the correct grips and tyres) 


and I will continue to race novice until I bloody win 

[pickle]

even with the bribes of man loving mine never even got a medal     

oh and after my performance on sunday looks like i'll be in the novice next year to 

[moomin]

As Tony said, in any competition a winner should be able to defend their title, if peeps want to win then step yo game up

Show n Shine for me was purely about getting my first build in and showing a bike that there aint many of, it looked nice, was never gonna win owt but as a tribute to Stephen Murray it was a labour of love and i'm glad it was built in time.

It'll be back next year with all the others hopefully as a display and if i win anything it's a bonus, if not hey ho 

Leave things as they are, if it aint broke dont fix it 

[stidds]

I think the best way of proving yourself whether it be S&S or racing is continuing to race or show against the best until you ARE the best, then it is up to people to beat you.

When I started racing back in the 80's, I was getting my a$$ handed to me on a plate every week by the best riders, so I worked harder everyday until I became the one everyone had to beat.  That is progression.

Last year my DeCoster came 2nd in its class, I knew that I had work to do and changed every part except for rims, frame and stem. This year it came 2nd again and I need to find a way of changing it so that it is better than Waxintaxin's Quadangle next year, how?  I have absolutely no idea but THAT is the fun of concours competitions.  I would not deam my bike the best if Rich doesn't show his bike next year, I will just be best by default and that is no fun at all.

But then again what do I know?   

[bmx2000]

Hi all, me and my wife show our army of OS Puch's not under any illusion that we are going to win but purely because just like the high end bikes our bikes are part of BMX history too. To exclude previous winning bikes would be like saying that if a horse wins a race he cannot enter that race again. The bar has been set with some truly awesome and inspiring builds and if we want to be best in catergory/show then we know what we have to do. It must be a daunting task for the judges to decide which is the best when you have so many near identical Haro's/Rippers/Quad's etc.

As for next years s and s we are already planning our new build, the Puch's will still be there (oh yes), but the new build will be a bit special, we have the f and f, and big ideas. We echo mrs ratty, if it aint broke, don't fix it.

On a last note, with regards to repro "OS" bikes, how can they be judged, surely they will all have correct spec to the letter because they are all brand new, never ridden? Just a thought.

[Waxintaxin]

I won 2 trophys this year and got a commendation and to me this was fantastic and really made me proud , and as i entered them into a competition , however mellow i expect it to be competative.
Its funny , My floval got 1st in the cruiser class last year and as soon as i saw Matts GHP and Nicks Curtis and tbo a few others as well i knew i was in for a fight it was a lovely resto and a well deserved winner , i was well happy for Matt because i know what he has done and the attention to detail was awsome.

The loopy quad was new this year and had not shown anyone it till MK , and I was incredibly happy with it, however i knew that Seans decoster was serious competition and would have been perfectly happy if it had won,tbo i chose it as the admins choice in the absence of Dave or Billy so you can see i liked it lol I also know that he was of the same opinion only in reverse

so i guess my point is that while our show and shines remain happy mellow affairs where no one crys or screams because someone beat them then its all good  and its worthy of the rad name

if it gets all nasty or moany then perhaps we should change it   

[generallee]

I would say that it's perfectly fine for any previoous bikes to be entered, whether they are changed or not.
I entered an S&M Dirtbike that Id sweated over this year - minty and all NOs parts apart fromthe restored frame and forks.
It didnt win any medals or prizes, as it was built a few days before the event [ hence the sweat!] .. and  after selling loads and loads of bits, I thought Id saved myself some NOS Ame grips ... turns out I had one pair of Ames left  , and they were the later model ones!
So I thoght - thisll probably go against me but what the heck? I LOVE this bike, and wanted to show it off as I doubt i'll bring it next year.
[ I brought my Purple PK and chorme Holmes last year, and wanted to bring something new]

so ... the things about my Dirtbike were the late grips being wrong ... and also I had some metal work done on the frame. It was battered, so Geoff cain restored its beauty, and also de - lugged it to make it like my favourite dirtbike of that era , with a pitbull brke and pitbull lever. [92 - 94 I think]
the bars were Alex Leech's early woody itson shape S&M slam Bars, and I even found NOs gt cranks and NOs odyssey Sprocket Pocket!-
Around this time yo could choose whether to have ad lugs or not, so I felt totally cool in doing so - and the finished resut im SO proud of!
I was a little saddened it didnt get any recognition at all, but there were some bloody amazing bikes there this year, and it was an honour to squeeze my two offerings amongst alex's den of S&M loveliness.

As for the classes - I would say sod the usa and do it the sensible way - like Stodgy says - up to and including 89 is old school - 90 to 99 mid school, anything after is new school.
The AD lugs started t come on the odd bike in the late 80s, then companies stopped using them again in the early 90s !And the 1.1/8" headset and 1" headset were used side by side for yonks.
And finally - as the years go by, some bikes will be seen as 'classic' .. maybe a 2001 - 2004  bike will look old and classic soon?
and there goes probably my longest answer to a thread!
mk09 ws amazing, many thanks Rad!
steve

[thebigdog]

As for the classes - I would say sod the usa and do it the sensible way - like Stodgy says - up to and including 89 is old school - 90 to 99 mid school, anything after is new school.

 

all old school in my book....

[trasher]

i dont see a problem with the winners re entering ,,,i mean you dont get a world champion boxer not being able to defend his title

twas my first s&s this year ,,,i didn't go with the intention of winning anything ,,,,i think its nice to show your builds to the peeps of rad

so they can see them in flesh ,and visa versa ,,,you get to see all the builds on here ,,,but its better to see them for real


oh and i was well chuffed with my medal ,for my curtis ,,,my childhood build 

[g_lamb]

I was a newbie to the event and the SnS this year and I entered my Torker Freestylist (The only one in the SnS, if not at the event) into the Old School Freestyle class

Was I completely happy with it when I put it on the stand in the marquee? No

Did I expect it to do anything? No

I picked up a dangly thing (not a shiney thing) and was I over the moon? Hell Yes - fooking stoked!

Did I feel very humble because of the interest it seemed to generate and of course the receipt of the dangly thing? Very

Do I know what I need to do to it to make ME happier? Yes

Will it make a difference to next year's SnS? Probably not

Do I care? No, not really, although I am sure we all have a secret desire to win when taking part in a competition. It's human nature.

Will I still enter? Hell Yes!

Will I throw my toys out of the pram if I don't win? Of course not, there's more important things in life than "kids" bikes

Do some entrants take it too seriously? Probably (No doubt a controversial one this so deal with it...)

In some repects choosing a winner out of a number of bikes that are the same i.e. the Aero Pro's must have been somewhat easier because it can come down to era correct analism. Choosing a winner out of, say, the OS Freestyle must have been a nightmare as there are no doubt entries which were originally F+F sets so how does one be ear correct...?

All the bikes there were fantastic and I felt great just being a part of it. The history of BMX in one place is just awsome.

I think the judging was spot on, although perhaps some rethinking about the OS classes i.e. 80-89. It just seems wrong that an 87 Haro Master and the Redline RL20 II are considered as MS

Roll on MK10

Am already working on my next 2 builds as well as finishing off the Torker to how I want it to truly look...

Laters all

[DIRTBIKER250F]

Tbh i still cant comprehend how Radmans bikes dont clean sweep, are we so used to them that they dont dazzle anymore. The JMC cruiser made a wet patch only the Jordash's kiss come close to

[munners]

Lees bikes are stunning but it seems you need to have a bike that isnt seen much to win.

[Stodgy]

Tbh i still cant comprehend how Radmans bikes dont clean sweep, are we so used to them that they dont dazzle anymore. The JMC cruiser made a wet patch only the Jordash's kiss come close to

We could choose all the race winners from Radmans tent every year...they are all awesome. There are just soooooo many they seem to merge into one!

[Stodgy]

Lees bikes are stunning but it seems you need to have a bike that isnt seen much to win.

Not particularily true that Nick, Matts Nomura was in there last year, it came second and was all over the forum for a year. Also in the past many of Radmans bikes have received prizes 2/3/4/5 years after we first saw them. Same with Jay's Haros...the winning one we have seen several times before

[pickle]

i have to admit to looking in the SnS tent and thinking they all blend into one!  thought the medals for reccognition were a superb idea though  

shows recpect for what people do and the work they've put into builds  

[DIRTBIKER250F]

My post wasnt to doubt the Judges before is gets misinterpriated (spelling), just saying how nice his and Pete's stand was and if it was me the JMC would have won all catogories and the bunny hop comp