spokes on z rims

[harris]

just got some spokes from alans for high flange hubs to zs usually i use 184mm
but they sent me 180 rear 182 front they can be laced but have to not have spokes so far apart
what you reckon

[Moose]

What make are the hubs?

[harris]

just sr same as acs well i got loads and they look the same

[Moose]

Not sure on the exact size of your hubs, but Suzue hf would give about 183mm spokes in a 3x pattern. If I were you, I'd use long nipples and these should take up the 3mm no problem.

[Steve P]

Ideally, 184mm spokes with long nipples must be used when building Z's on hi-flange hubs. Doing so will ensure an adequate cross pattern and a much stronger wheel

You may get away with using 182mm spokes, again with long nipples, as this will only reduce the number of crosses when you lace the wheels

I reckon the 180mm spokes will be too short. Remember, this is a total difference of 8mm across the effective rim diameter and coupled with the extra thickness of the Z-rim the use of long nipples will not help much

I would return the spokes to Alans and order 184mm with long nipples instead

Hope this helps

Steve 

[harris]

yes i agree and thanks for all your help.

[crazycraig]

alans laced my last z's turned out mint

[harris]

yes i am confused i have had at least 4 sets of him before so i didnt just tell them 184 please
they asked the hub and rim and thats what i got they did speek to there wheel builder o well
thats life,

[Steve P]

To ensure the correct spoke length you need the following details:


ERD - effective rim diameter (Z-rim = 392mm)

LEFT HUB FLANGE DIAMETER

LEFT HUB CENTRE TO FLANGE

RIGHT HUB FLANGE DIAMETER

RIGHT HUB CENTRE TO FLANGE

NUMBER OF CROSSES

NUMBER OF SPOKES


Enter all your details "HERE" to obtain your required spoke length

Hope this helps you further

Steve

[crazycraig]

that's amazing 

[Steve P]

Worth adding that link to your favourites . . . always comes in handy when building wheels

Cheers

Steve 

[Moose]

Ideally, 184mm spokes with long nipples must be used when building Z's on hi-flange hubs. Doing so will ensure an adequate cross pattern and a much stronger wheel

You may get away with using 182mm spokes, again with long nipples, as this will only reduce the number of crosses when you lace the wheels

I reckon the 180mm spokes will be too short. Remember, this is a total difference of 8mm across the effective rim diameter and coupled with the extra thickness of the Z-rim the use of long nipples will not help much

I would return the spokes to Alans and order 184mm with long nipples instead

Hope this helps

Not sure I agree with everything you've said there. Using DT Swiss' calculator and SUzue high flange hubs as a guide, thier recommendation is 182mm for the front and 182/181mm for the rear. This is based on using 14mm nipples, the shorter the nipples the longer the spoke (184mm for 12mm nipples).

[harris]

they sent the short nipples 182 front 180 rear so i will at least change for longer nipples,

[Steve P]

Not sure I agree with everything you've said there. Using DT Swiss' calculator and SUzue high flange hubs as a guide, thier recommendation is 182mm for the front and 182/181mm for the rear. This is based on using 14mm nipples, the shorter the nipples the longer the spoke (184mm for 12mm nipples).

My help has been based on my own experience of building three sets of Z-Rims with hi-flange hubs . . . they all laced perfectly using 184mm spokes with long nipples !!!

[Moose]

they all laced perfectly using 184mm spokes with long nipples !!!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting that 184mm laced perfectly and you have far more experience than me at wheel building.

All I was trying to say was that, i wouldn't necessarily send back the spokes (not before measuring the hubs anyway) as the 182/180 combination may be sufficient depending on the measurements.

Don't you think it would be better for Danny to measure the hubs and use one of the calculators and see if his hub measurements make any difference. If Danny still has doubts, he can voice them with 'Alans' whilst he's getting them to swap the nipples.

[Steve P]

Don't you think it would be better for Danny to measure the hubs and use one of the calculators and see if his hub measurements make any difference. If Danny still has doubts, he can voice them with 'Alans' whilst he's getting them to swap the nipples.

I go with you on that one Moose 

I would get a set of long spoke nipples on order and build the rear wheel using the 180mm spokes. They will probably fit but with a lower cross pattern which will reduce the overall strength of the wheel

I use Custom Riders to supply all my spokes and with their advice I used 184mm spokes when I built my first set of Z's. The guy I spoke to really knew his stuff and was familiar with old school wheels and recommended that I used long nipples too

The DT Swiss calculator is a much better tool than those I have used in the past and I will continue to use that for future wheel builds . . . nice one !!!

Cheers

Steve 

[Moose]

Here's another good one, it's an excel spreadsheet you download with a rim and hub 'database'. The good thing I find with this one is that if your hubs and rims aren't there you can add them to the 'database' after you've measured them (just make sure you download the full strength version)

http://www.damonrinard.com/spocalc.htm

[Steve P]

I have that spreadsheet already . . . it came in very handy when I built the skinnys for my looptail Mini Ripper

Nice one mate . . . thanks for that

Steve