USA -v- Taiwan

[teamsano]

is there anyone who can prove to me why a u.s. made frame  would be better than a taiwanese frame?  (thats taiwan, not thailand stodgy.    )

yip, i thought so.

just to put a bit more into this, i've broke or bent every u.s. frame i've owned, and the only taiwanese frame i've  broken was a late 80's hutch.


i wouldn't even ride a frame that was made in the u.k.

[welsh denny]

there are so many factors involved in making frames and parts that either can have errors from time to time. nothing  and no-one is infallable.
whether it down to the designer of the parts error, tubing grade being bad, inconsistant or dodgy welding, misalignment in jigs etc.
 people having a bad day, time constraints, these can all affect how a product is made.
i've had usa, taiwanese and uk made bikes over the years.  broke ones from all categories but also many have survived and gone on to others.
as well as the factors i mentioned above you also have the element of how a rider sets up the bike- does he do a botch job which will hinder it over time.
then the element of rider skills. no-one , and i mean no-one pulls every trick , every time perfect. obviously the more abuse you chuck at a bike the weaker it will become.
combine all these factors and  bikes can literally fall apart.
 bikes are better made now than they ever were, the taiwan made bikes are so good due to the years of building and honing their skills that i don't think there is any difference.
 people will always buy because of  the companies  image. whether it S & M, Standard, Fly, Haro, Mirraco, Eastern, Proper, etc.


(i work in manufacturing - not bikes though- and also have some welding nvq's so i do have some background knowledge to back me up)

[Bigplinky]

Personnaly I would buy European or USA made goods over Taiwan goods for the pure fact I don't want to see the manufacturing skills totally lost in those countries. I work in UK heavy engineering (for a Japanese company) and at the end of the day when I've got my hands dirty and actually made something or developed something in to a product acceptable for a customer I feel bloody goos about it. I would hate to see the UK/EU/USA turn into a totally desk ridden countrys and I feel buying from within the EU or USA goes a little way to keeping the manufacturing skills alive.

But I do sometimes question the quality of goods from specialist manufactures and believe they trade on past glory a lot

Taiwan nice quality but not for me if I can help it (which sometime you can't)

[Philbert]

i'm a total fookin snob when it comes to this and i don't mind admitting it! joe i whole heartedly agree with you buddy. i know exactly where my stuff is made and what it goes through before arriving to me. and thats why i get what i get!

now mtb's i'm different with. we used to stock merida bikes at my old work place, they are the second largest cycle manufacturer in the world behind giant (or were) and i have to say the build quality on their frames were second to none and they're all robot welded in taiwan. i don't have one but i was impressed!

just something about bmx within me makes me want to know its source. probably a psychological trust thing from days of old. back in the 90's a taiwan frame was a kids bike. a usa made frame was a 'proper bmx'. even the big corporate companies top end frames were still made in the states with lower spec coming from taiwan

[magna13]

I don't think it matters now in this day and age... many BMX's on the market are made in Taiwan and are superb quality!... i think this was more talked about with bikes BITD

[lodge]

Why would Robbie Morales have his top end Fit frames manufactured by S&M in the usa and his complete's frames and lower end frames manufactured in Taiwan.
Surely he does this for a reason.

[TwoBobRob]

Exclusivety  I reckon   

[dialledbikes]

Why would Robbie Morales have his top end Fit frames manufactured by S&M in the usa and his complete's frames and lower end frames manufactured in Taiwan.
Surely he does this for a reason.

Don't S&M/Chris Moeller co-own Fit with Robbie?

[toys19]

I've had little ponder on this and I think the real point here is about what economists call the rational /irrational man. Basically its an illusion to think that people always make decisions for rational reasons. For example think of the northern rock crises - the govmnt guaranteed everyones savings, but still people queued outside the bank to take out their money, despite the widespread media coverage that their money was now safe(OK there are arguments here about do we trust the govt despite thier promises etc but you get my point) 

You could say the same about the USA/Taiwan argument now, for a quality engineer and a purchasing manager they could probably find no reason to build frames in the US when they can be made in Taiwan cheaper and just as good quality, but some frames will be built in the US because the marketing people know that there are people who have emotional feelings about what they buy (and thats really important) even though they may not be rational. 

Lets face it we all know that if something has the right label then it sells for much more despite the fact that the quality may not be different at all, and the made in USA label probably has the same effect.

Also many people do not have the knowledge or skills to determine quality so they go with perceived brand awareness instead, how do people know if a product is good otherwise? And the marketing people prey on this. So any company has to market on several fronts - technical to appeal to the geeks like me, and emotional 'buy this and you will be a better person/sexier/getlaid more etc' or quality by association 'this product must be good some famous dude uses it/ its got the queens charter mark etc etc' or quality by brand perception 'every ones knows that company x has a reputation for top quality, its got their badge on its must be good' . I heard a tale recently about a guy who bought a Kenwood cooker from Curry's only to find later that it was just a rebadged POS and is launching a legal challenge to Currys that he was mis-sold, which opens up a huge can of worms because loads of manufacturers re-badge stuff..

Then there is the cultural/racism/trust argument - the US has a similar culture to ours so we feel comfortable with them, the Taiwanese look different, eat differently and do things differently so surprisngly enough some people find that changes their perception about the goods the Taiwanese produce. 

BUT all of us on here have the luxury of BMX's and we are involved purely for enjoyment and part of that enjoyment is the purchasing and ownership "experience" which is about feeling good- its almost purely emotional so we are going to gravitate towards products that give us the emotional tickle we require..

[dialledbikes]

It seems to me that desirability is the main factory for buying a US-made frame over a Taiwanese-made frame.

I don't think there's any question that S&M and Standard are top notch in every respect.  But even if the quality wasn't as high, they would still be the default/automatic choice for a lot of people because they're desirable brands.

[Stodgy]

Why would Robbie Morales have his top end Fit frames manufactured by S&M in the usa and his complete's frames and lower end frames manufactured in Taiwan.
Surely he does this for a reason.

Price.

Completes have price points they need to meet...this can only be achieved through manufacturing in the far east.

[toys19]

Price.
Completes have price points they need to meet...this can only be achieved through manufacturing in the far east.

Its the same with old school bikes, if you sell a complete bike people dont really want to pay the price of the parts added together thats why its always better to sell the bits separately..

[darkersomeday]

i'm not rational,


i'm a fooking fruit-loop

[toys19]

Indeed I think anyone into OSBMX has to be a bit nutty..

[Rombloke]

i'm not rational,


i'm a fooking fruit-loop

a fair point, well made.

thanks joe.

lol

Dave

[dibly]

on some of our frames in the future we will get the tubes made in the UK then shipped over to Taiwan made into frames then shipped all over europe,

when shipping to europe alot has to be taken into considerasion like exchange rates etc etc and shipping cost inport and export duties

with all this taken into consideration shipping from Taiwan is the best and cheapest way to do so which is better for the customer as then the price of the product is cheaper