1 4 alex, is there any link between revcore n S&M?

[OrgasmDonor]

just curious as the geometry looks familiar, fork drop outs, rear drop outs (kinda) build quality etc, was lookin at madd doggs new revcore at the track the other day and the possibility of it being S&M connected (as they did finger a few pies from what ive gathered) arose during conversation.

so Alex, my question to you.......Were we talkin bollox?

cheers daz

[SaMAlex]

I dont know much (anything) about Revcore but a few companies got their frames made at the same place, and there werent many places who made BMX frames. The frame makers would do what they could to make things easy for themselves, and if that meant making frames for everyone that were almost the same, then they would do it.


So, my guess is that Revcore and S&M were made in the same place, at least for a while.

[OrgasmDonor]

sounds good to me cheers dude

[teamsano]

revcore was owned by cw.

[OrgasmDonor]

revcore was owned by cw.

i kno that much but was just curious who may have bunged the tubes together as i dont kno much about cw either especially the later years, there is a cw/revcore website, nice pics but not much info on the revcore stuff

cheers daz

[dialledbikes]

I think the connection is a company called B&E who made frames for lots of different companies in the early 90s.

[SaMAlex]

B&E made S&M frames for a while. My mk1 Dirtbike was made there.



(At last, I can make some input to a thread that has my name in the subject!)

[dialledbikes]

Loads of different brands got their frames made at the same places in the early 90s.  These are the ones I can remember

GT made frames for GT, Powerlite, Auburn, Robinson, Morales, Dyno and S&M (and gobbled them all up except for S&M)

SE Racing made frames for SE, Hoffman, Leary Dertwerx, Dirt Master (I think SE may also have made some frames for S&M at one point)

B&E - S&M, Revcore, CW, Hutchins, Badd & Co, Boss

Fabweld - MCS, Profile, Cyclecraft, Bully

DK - DK, Reynolds Racing

Waterford - Standard

I guess when the rider owned boom started, there were lots of companies/brands designing their own product but not in a financial position to have their own factories/production facilities.

[SaMAlex]

GT made frames for GT, Powerlite, Auburn, Robinson, Morales, Dyno and S&M (and gobbled them all up except for S&M)

Oh, quick. I chance to bad mouth GT!

One of GTs tricks was to over produce frames when orders were low, and be very slow when many frames were ordered. This led to the smaller companies being in debt to GT .... who would kindly offer to help out financially (by buying some, or all the company).

Very kind of them really!   

[OrgasmDonor]

B&E made S&M frames for a while. My mk1 Dirtbike was made there.



(At last, I can make some input to a thread that has my name in the subject!)

ooo the pressure

the mk1 dirt bike is the s&m frame that i think most resembles the revcore along with the badd frames, so the B&E info seems bang on the money

SE, also made the Riot for WAL

great info there mike and dudes appreciate it

will post pics of revcore over the weekend me thinks and ye can make ya own minds up, it is the same as madd doggs (russ) but i dont think mine is as sleek lookin

[SaMAlex]

the mk1 dirt bike is the s&m frame that i think most resembles the revcore along with the badd frames, so the B&E info seems bang on the money

The Revcore is a nice long frame aint it? Its probably more like the mk1 Holmes (See some pics of them over on Stodgys "Holmes info" thread). Its pretty much the same as a dirtbike, but longer.

[OrgasmDonor]

not sure what length the holmes are, (will check out stodges thread) but my revcore is a pro long 20" TT but i think looks shorter due to the height of the top tube

[SaMAlex]

I totally just stumbled across this on another site. Just at the right time


The Holmes was pretty much just a beefed up Revcore pro xl frame, which only makes sense as CW which was Revcore made stuff for them.


So maybe the Revcore Pro was like a dirtbike, and the Revcore pro XL was like a Holmes.

[OrgasmDonor]

mmmm no mention of a revcore xl on the revcore site, the pro long is the longest, but its all falling together now dude and you have supplied the defining info, so you can relax now, job well done

[ron burgundy]

Damn, I'm good

[OrgasmDonor]

Damn, I'm good

 

[christhejob]

b&e made homeless too  (irrelevant thread addition)
crappy sandwiched dropouts!

[teamsano]

just beat me to that one jobbo.

i went to b+e in '93 to get 990 lugs added to a lugless dirt bike i picked up at s+m, the frame was already painted and they just popped it back in the jig and burned the paint off as they welded it.

it was the only dirt bike i ever seen in that color (a really dark yellow) and had the longer (at that time) holmes rear end.

dominic taranto (manager) gave me his business card and a club homeboy card which was lying on his desk at the time, i still have both.

they also had a skyway streetbeat there, which moeller had dropped off and told them to copy the angles for the new H.A.F.

b+e also made exhausts for harley davidson.

sorry to go off topic.

[SaMAlex]

Even in the early 90s Moeller didnt like independent weld shops making BMX frames. He didnt think they had the passion needed to make quality frames. He would joke that the welders jobs for the day went like this:

Lawn chair ... Lawn chair ... Pitchforks ... Lawn chair ... Slambars ... Lawn chair ... Lawn chair ...

Not really ideal.

[dialledbikes]

Ideal scenario for any rider owned company is to have everything made in-house, but costs are the biggest showstopper (premises, equipment, staff, etc).

How long did it take S&M and Standard to go in-house?  10-15 years.  Hoffman were in-house early on then did the opposite and outsourced to Taiwan.

If nothing else, this thread motivated me to do a bit of research and B&E is still around.  I might consider using them for a future project 

[Miko]

I'm pretty sure S&M bought a lot of their initial "in-house" infrastructure from Elf when they went belly up.  I could be wrong though.

As far as Revcore is concerned.  Their frames were made by B&E in the same jigs as Badd and S&M.  I have a factory S&M-stickered Badd from Ryan Partridge.  It has a BCP***** serial which denotes a Badd and Co. Pro.  But it has a 22" top tube.  So it's a strange bird.

Originally Revcore was a sub brand of CW.  Then CW became Revcore, and later was part of the same company as Hutchins which was formerly Hutch.  Confused yet?  Jay Brecht owned the both and I think both were gone before the world went threadless.

Revcore also had fine parts to offer back in the day.  Great hubs, stems, bars, posts, and of course, pedals.  As far as I know, their aluminum parts were machined by the company that later became JP.  JP machined parts for both Revcore and Crupi.

[OrgasmDonor]

info overload a wealth of knowledge dudes, really appreciate all the replies, nice one just got to get it built so it feels good to ride now

[Bigplinky]

So where does Brian Patterson and Boss fit in to this? as in a Leary Dirtwerx article I've got from Snap Mag I'm sure it is stated that they were made by Boss (who made Patterson and I'm pretty sure were bought by Brian Patterson in the later 80's). Just a Quicky as Mike stated Leary had his frame made by SE

[nic968]

 I was wondering when the ELF connection would surface....
 If they passed on their 'tools' when they closed down,does this mean they were also in the business of making frames & forks for other companies too?
 Is there any truth in the possibility that early S&M F&F came out of the Elf factory??