CARBON FIBRE BMX FRAMES?

[HEYWOOD BMX]

  Been reading a fairly heated debate on another site about these,mainly due to frames from MBK & GT (£1000 anyone?) Are these really progression in the development of BMX frames? I doubt it.Avent had their Morpheus frames,and personally I like the look but no way these are ever going to be as strong as a cromo/ti frame.The GT frame doesn`t seem to be even as light as some ali frames ...Let`s hear your views..   

[scooby74]

cromo does the job for me to be honest, always honest and reliable 

[lodge]

IMHO it just wont work.

Look at all the money thrown at MTB development but after all the years playing with carbon,  frames are few and far between due to cost and strength.
there is still know where near the amount of money in bmx compared to MTB so why waste our time.

[darkersomeday]

carbon shmarbon,

bring me that foul gt frame and i'll "progress" the fook out of it

its ALL about the cromo

[dibly]

i had an fmf 5 tube carbon race frame with carbon forks, cranks and seat post

it sucked eggs long time!

[HEYWOOD BMX]

  I run carbon forks and know some people have issues with them.I don`t dispute that cromo is the way to go for BMX frames,after all if it`s not broke,don`t fix it.I`ve had.have some good alloy race frames too,just seems to me carbon BMX frames are a fad? The price seems totally extortionate and I don`t think the weight saving is all that.Cromo frames seem to be coming down in weight,for racing I`d say that`s a bonus.Not too sure about some mega light cromo freestyle frames-I`ve heard mixed views.  

[HEYWOOD BMX]

No offence intended,but wasn`t the FMF frame you mentioned almost a direct copy of the Avent frames?

[dibly]

i think so i just hated the bike i thought i would love it but i didnt its just my views im sure some people really like carbon it just aint for me

[perry]

steel is real !

a decent cromo frame will last forever if cared for ( within reason , you know what i mean )

alloy frames have a life expectancy before they fatigue ( ever wondered why mtbs with big forks have big gussets , CRACKKKK )

carbon is just a marketing gimmick , sorry to break it to the masses but it just is  . now the geometry is about right in bmx there isnt much a company can do to get that " i must fookin have that " feeling from a potential customer , all they can do is refine what they have .

frames are better off being made in steel , but that doesnt get the same reaction from average man on the street like a carbon frame would , but average man on the street doesnt know carbons shortfalls , brittle / flex / delaminates in the sun etc , they just see something fancy to spend a big wedge of money on

the fast guys will be fast enough to be given them , so cracking a few wouldnt be any problem . the real racers , the bread and butter of the racing scene wouldnt pay £1000 for a frame alone , they would spread the cost on things like travel and dependable parts , which leaves the rich posers who want the latest stuff but never ride enough to see how bad they are . but after all the fast racers use them so they must be good eh 

 

[zed4130]

I did a post a few weeks back about the new carbon gt, think most on here prefere good old 4130, but as said with it becoming a olympic sport its no bad thing to see new technoligy (spelling lol) but i personaly dont like it, steal is real and all that 

[darkersomeday]

steal is real and all that 

"put the money in the fooking bag and DONT look at me"
 

[perry]

 

thats why hes asking about the post office  , how do i get in on the blag

[HEYWOOD BMX]

  Looks like that is settled then-carbon fibre + BMX =NO!

Personally I have no gripe with alloy raceframes,sure they don`t have the lifetime of cromoly but some do seem to be light as carbon without the stupid price tag.

[darkersomeday]

 how do i get in on the blag

work as a designer at GT, the twats, i just hate them, esp today
 

if they made an carbon frame that was CHEAP, tough, was tuned to feel exactly the same as a steel frame, was hard-wearing and weighed under a pound

i'd seriously consider one,

for me though it just shows GT up for what they are,
none of those tits even rides anymore so they just assume that we'll have the hand-me-downs from the xc mtb end of the business and that it'll work

theyre running out of idea's and needed a "corporate show pony" to try and garner a little "credibility"

mbk just saw what GT were doing and wanted "in" for a sniff,

specialized will be next you MARK my words,

lets be straight about it shall we? its something for the disco-slipper wearing race=fag homo's to show off to each other on the start gate,

seems to match the fooking evil corrupt nature of the "olympics" though eh?

[perry]

ten tenths know their stuff 

http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php't=104934

[dialledbikes]

I was a major contributor to the thread on the other forum.

I don't have a problem with new technology being tried in BMX, nor with carbon fibre bike frames per se.  What gets my goat is that whenever someone posts a pic of one of these carbon fibre frames, there's always somebody who starts spouting stuff about it being "progression".  How?  If they're not lighter, stiffer, stronger, more resilient, don't have better strength-to-weight ratio and cost at least double the price of a top end frame already on the market, where's the progress?

And if they want us to take these carbon frames seriously, why make them look so toy shop-esque?

Like Perry says, they're a great PR exercise (look how many of us are debating them and apparently there are only 5 of those GT frames in the country).

[HEYWOOD BMX]

  I read the thread on the other forum,and agree with Mike.Certainly not progression,just different & if anything not as good as alloy.Alans has some of the GT`s for sale....

[dialledbikes]

In terms of weight, strength and price combined, then aluminium is probably the best thing to make a BMX race frame out of.  The only downside of alu is that it's not as resilient/long lasting as steel or titanium.

Titanium is the best material if price isn't an issue (but not many people in BMX are prepared to spend that much on a frame, as I have discovered).

Therefore, I think cro-moly is the best middle ground.  Slightly heavier than alu and Ti (pound/pound-and-a-half), but strong and sensibly priced.

[perry]

whatever happened to those spin wheels

[Peter J]

I agree with Mike,

I work for a Software company and one of our products tests the stress/strain (FEA) on different materials. Most of the major MTB companies use it. The results carbon vs. aluminium vs.  cromo is really pointless when you look at the disciplines the bike will be used for in the case of BMX and MTB. Road bikes, Triathlon bikes and track bikes are a different matter.

It’s just one up man ship, the cost of developing these carbon frames will be a part of the companies marketing budget and not designed for large production runs.

It really bugs me when these companies waste money on sh1t like this, why not sponsor more riders or events at grass root racing, they'd get their product shown in more places rather than giving a "new toy" to a couple of guys who are already fast as fook and a carbon frame will make bugger all difference to their overall performance.

I am all for moving forward with technology if there’s a better way of doing something or making something then go for it, but don’t was time on developing a product that the average man (i.e. the people who buy the products) cannot afford and by the responses posted here really don’t want

 

[Dingobmxer]

carbon fibre is for fishing rods 

this'll do for me ta!



  DINGO

[zed4130]

carbon fibre is for fishing rods 

this'll do for me ta!



  DINGO

and remember mate, you put spuds on that, it will blow up    , oh ill send those scans tonight mate,   

[proclass35]

I find the 'Luddite' attitude towards carbon is typical of most peoples attitude within BMX racing, where it's uncool to be competative, enthusiastic or willing to progress. Sure, these frames look crap at the moment and are not good value for money, but look towards the potential thats still within the development of composite materials- if you don't test and develop, you'll never improve. The development of traditional metal frames, apart from fiddling with the geometry, seems pretty stagnant at the moment, so experimenting with alternative materials is surely a way of gaining a competative edge over your rivals.
My background is more in kart racing and motorsport, where any possible means is used to increase performance. Composite materials such as carbon are widely used in F1 and other formulas, in components where the stresses  are far beyond those exerted by a BMX bike. In fact a freind of mine, whose son also races BMX, designs carbon components for aircraft- where failure of material has serious implications. If your telling me that a BMX frame can't be made of the same material then you're just kidding yourselves for fear of what exactly? Progression?
I'm not saying that carbon will be the answer, or will improve performance, but unless manufacturers are encouraged to experiment we'll never know. Who would have said 10 years ago that a diesel engine would win Le Mans? Audi did, and now everyones developing diesel engines. And I don't think diesel was ever a 'sales gimmick'.....

[perry]

"if you don't test and develop, you'll never improve"

will 1lb win a race ? never . does having a carbon frame mean a novice will be as quick as the world champ of a few years ago who used a cromo frame , i doubt it

do karts use monococque bodies ? because im sure my mates is tubular steel

are alloy rollcages allowed by the msa , erm nope still 4130 cromo there too

how about national hotrod space frames , ahh thatl be 4130 again

top fuel frames are still steel

youve gotta remember these things have still got to be ridden , sure an f1 car is fine for the 1 race it has to do but what about the weekend racer building their single seater on a budget , are they going to want a whole new car each year , or will they want something with longevity

what happens when little johnny has an off on his carlos fandango super lightweight frame and puts a sizeable crack in the toptube or even takes a chunk out of it , will it get him through the next moto safely or will the fear of it shattering get too much , will he lose to the lad who bought a £200 steel frame 3 years ago who for all intens and purposes has spent his time riding without being washed along on " the next thing to shave 1/10 off your time "

its about sales , if you can get someone to believe they will be faster on your new stuff they will buy it , regardless of it being any good or not

what exactly does it progress ? will it make the rider pedal harder and faster than the guy on the steel frame , doubtfull

are disc brakes on racing bikes any better than the v brakes or the u brakes or the calipers , or is it another way for a company to make a few quid by saying its " progression "

 

[dialledbikes]

Really can't be arsed to repeat what I've already said elsewhere.

So when these carbon frames are proven to progress the sport of BMX, you can say "told you so".  For the meantime, I'll continue to be one of the luddites selling good "old fashioned" cro-moly and titanium frames