Author Topic: S&M Prince Albert cranks: the 4 generations (Read 33878 times)

SaMAlex · « **on:** May 14, 2007, 11:27 PM »

Ok, it’s taken me a little while to be able to do this but I’ve been wanting to for ages. Hopefully it will find itself onto Vintage BMX cos I have seen some of the guys over there get it wrong a few times.

When S&M first made the Prince Albert crank they took the Boss crank design and tried to solve the problem of them breaking at the pedal end. They did this by piercing the pedal boss, making the cranks arm pierced at the end (hence the name). They used the same spindle as Boss cranks (I think) and they were made in Florida by Greg Esser, the BMX racer. These cranks were first make in 1994 and I don’t know how many of the first gen were made. The design didn’t really work cos now the crank arms broke at the BB end.

The second Gen design was a simple progression: pierce the BB end as well. The name didn’t really work but hopefully the cranks would. The design was better, but there were still problems with the spindle. The splines had a smaller Outside dia than the 19mm bearings and they were quite deep (S&M wanted to make them different and try to stop the hit and miss alignment with profile splines). The deep spline and smaller dia spindle made them weaker and they broke.

The third Gen PAs were very close to the second but they used a profile style spindle. The spindles were a little different because they used a smaller bolt to thicken up the wall of the spindle. This worked fine and the spindle problems were sorted out, but there were still some lingering problems with the crank arms. Now that the BB boss was bigger (for the profile style spindle) the piercing at the BB end clipped the inside wall of the arm tube so they sometimes broke there.

The forth and final PA had a bigger overall size of crank arm to give clearance for the piercing at both ends. This really did seem to make for a strong crank arm, but these were only really used for warrantee replacements and they weren’t made for sale (As far as I know).

It’s a shame because S&M went to an awful amount of effort, trouble and expense to make good cranks and it really bit them bad. In the end, they decided that other people (profile) make great cranks at a good price so they wouldn’t bother.

I prefer the first gen cranks. They are very clean looking and the arm isn’t too big. I first held a pair of the first 50 in 1994, but they all got sent back because they were made wrong and the arms didn’t line up (jinxed from the very start?). I have been waiting to get a set of gen 1s since then, and I finally did last week.

1st to 4 gen PA cranks- side view

1st to 4 gen PA cranks- top view

1st to 4 gen PA cranks- pedal end

1st to 4 gen PA cranks- BB end

1st and 2nd gen PA spindle

Lazarou · « **Reply #1 on:** May 14, 2007, 11:32 PM »

I've snapped a set of ones and twos!

Lazarou · « **Reply #2 on:** May 14, 2007, 11:33 PM »

Quote from: Lazarou on May 14, 2007, 11:32 PM

I've snapped a set of ones and twos!

But red series ones are where it's at for me though! soooooo nice!

Lazarou · « **Reply #3 on:** May 14, 2007, 11:34 PM »

I just quoted myself! Tw@t!

SaMAlex · « **Reply #4 on:** May 14, 2007, 11:35 PM »

I got a set of 2s in 95 (I guess) and used them for ages, no probs. I then put them on my cruiser in 97 and they are still there now.

Lazarou · « **Reply #5 on:** May 14, 2007, 11:37 PM »

I'd say i maybe had a faulty set but two of my mates broke their's too! One guy on the day he bought them! But plenty of people (me included) have broken profiles too, so i still have a soft spot for PA's!

Lazarou · « **Reply #6 on:** May 14, 2007, 11:40 PM »

....and sorry Alex! for messing up your informative thread!

TwoBobRob · « **Reply #7 on:** May 14, 2007, 11:58 PM »

Good thread. I didn't know any of that. I love a bit of history, me

RATTY · « **Reply #8 on:** May 15, 2007, 12:37 AM »

Should be made a sticky in mid school, wheres Dan.

harris · « **Reply #9 on:** May 15, 2007, 07:30 AM »

im hear all stuck down with my special glue.
mmmmmmm look great them puppys mr

Stodgy · « **Reply #10 on:** May 15, 2007, 09:42 AM »

Nice info Alex!

woody allen bars · « **Reply #11 on:** May 16, 2007, 04:30 PM »

Yep, nice one Alex. Looks like mine are version 3

Cheers, Craig

teamsano · « **Reply #12 on:** May 16, 2007, 10:45 PM »

i had the version 3's i guess, because they had the profile style spindle. they lasted a whopping 3 days riding.

'nae mair riding for me the day!'

subversion · « **Reply #13 on:** June 05, 2007, 09:20 PM »

Nice work Al

YGT · « **Reply #14 on:** June 22, 2007, 07:15 PM »

Should first gens really be regarded as first gens?
What I mean id did first gens every make it to the retailers or where they simply prototypes?

SaMAlex · « **Reply #15 on:** June 22, 2007, 07:40 PM »

Quote from: YGT on June 22, 2007, 07:15 PM

Should first gens really be regarded as first gens?
What I mean id did first gens every make it to the retailers or where they simply prototypes?

I cant say if they made it to retailers but people def used them. They can be seen on bikes in the odd mag shot, and I think they did a few runs of them. Im sure that some made it to the UK cos I think Ian Morris used some. I cant say for sure but I think they were more than prototypes.

RyanPartridge · « **Reply #16 on:** October 30, 2007, 07:36 PM »

I bought a set of the 1st gen Prince Alberts in 94 from Mental Jimmys. Mine were red 175's. I did strip the teeth a bit on the left arm, so there was always some play but I ran them anyways. Years later I sold em on a complete bike on ebay. Here's a photo of chrome versions of what mine were like.

teamsano · « **Reply #17 on:** November 07, 2007, 07:26 PM »

bet you wish you never sold those, huh ryan?

i had a tshirt with that logo too, it got worn to work and ended up dead.

SaMAlex · « **Reply #18 on:** November 07, 2007, 07:41 PM »

Quote from: teamsano on November 07, 2007, 07:26 PM

i had a tshirt with that logo too

I had that shirt too. I gave it to a big hairy motorbiker mate cos he found it really funny. (I think he might have had a Prince Albert ... but I never asked him)

teamsano · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2008, 09:16 PM »

i saw this pic of yours on ryan's site alex, and wondered, is this the P.A. shirt you meant?

SaMAlex · « **Reply #20 on:** January 13, 2008, 06:48 PM »

Na, that other shirt was a print of the crank decal. It was a real shirt. That white one was one I printed myself using the screen for the crank box.

steve Beech TA · « **Reply #21 on:** May 20, 2008, 09:17 PM »

Handy info, cheers for the time

JT71 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 21, 2008, 02:52 PM »

Quote from: TwoBobRob on May 14, 2007, 11:58 PM

Good thread. I didn't know any of that. I love a bit of history, me

can't wait for the next campfire.

i just know Rob has filed all that away.

scott250 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 20, 2008, 10:31 PM »

I had a pair on for 30 mins before they snaped. Think they were 2nd gens. Worst cranks ever which is odd because s&m make the best forks & bars I think. The frames are cool too. Shame the cranks suck.

I'm not too impressed with s&m grips ither, lasted about a week and not nice to hold - back too good old ODIs now

noddybeard · « **Reply #24 on:** December 08, 2008, 07:36 PM »

Cant help but think maybe Odyssey stole the gen4 design for the 41 Therm (pre wombolt) cranks?

Author Topic: S&M Prince Albert cranks: the 4 generations (Read 33878 times)

SaMAlex

Lazarou

Lazarou

Lazarou

SaMAlex

Lazarou

Lazarou

woody allen bars

teamsano

subversion

YGT

SaMAlex

RyanPartridge

teamsano

SaMAlex

teamsano

SaMAlex

steve Beech TA

JT71

scott250

noddybeard