Torker built Haro Generations

[greentoad]

Hi all

I have been working on the Haro list for quite a while now, logging bikes, making graphs etc and tracking and ID'ing new generations.

Plus getting full history of damage, original chrome / paint, decals etc etc where possible, and the list is getting very good and informative.

Well, I came up with this a while ago, but it now hopefully will be correct, I reckon there is in fact - Gen 1 and Gen 2 Freestylers.

I am also working on early prototypes and also have some more frames to log.

I am also trying to get more information from the original technical drawing (can anyone help with this - I need full size pictures of certain parts of the diagram).

So, I reckon that there is now -

Gen 1 Freestyler (2 in the World)

Gen 2 Freestyler (47 in the World)

Gen 1 Master (8 in the World)

Gen 2 Master (10 in the World)

Gen 1 Sport (2 in the World)

Gen 2 Sport (2 in the World)

J.

[thebigdog]

     Great work  J 

   When I find out a bit more info about my gen 2 sport i will pass it on.     cant belive ive got one of the gen 2 sports!


   I also know one of my mates has a very early torker made master or freestyler in his loft,ill have to get all the info on it for you.
 

   Matt 




 



 

[NYSoul]

How many of the above are in the UK Greentoad?

[theRuler]

how many are at dave g's house?

[greentoad]

According to the list Dave has 1. There are approx -

0 Gen 1 Freestyler

22 Gen 2 Freestyler

4 Gen 1 Master

5 Gen 2 Master

1 Gen 1 Sport

2 Gen 2 Sport

- Torker built Haro's in the UK

J.

[Jazzchimp]

Thi sis really interesting - how can you tell a torker made Haro cos mine has a T frame number?

[Rombloke]

that list wrong...lol...i got two

Dave

[JAY]

Great work J ,but as i mentioned to you , I'm not sure the Gen 1 freestyler should be called a gen 2 freestyler because early models have a cut out underneath the head tube gusset .I think it should be listed as early gen1 or later gen1 ,or something like that .......

Take the 1st gen sport , you have a torker non tapered tubed frame ,but ive seen this frame with some very small differences (chainstay gusset with and without) ,but its the same frame .
The 2nd gen sport is still Torker but the frame tubing and gussets ,dropouts,etc ,etc are totally different , yet looks very similar in appearence.
The 3rd gen totally changes again , but again similar in appearence.
This is the same for the masters

Sorry, but a gen 1 is a gen 1 , just my thoughts ........ what do you reckon.

[greentoad]

Hiya Jay, hope your keeping well.

I have asked for close ups of the technical drawing (you be able to make contact?), hopefully it will show where the welds are, full dimensions (these may be different in a few a measurements from production models), knurling (or lack of - I reckon if ever a bike built in the first 50 or so was found, it might not have knurling), and full specifications, I think this could be a great help.

I reckon that the way they got built was early prototypes (most things start this way - lets not forget this was the start of it all) with possibly a different serial ID (like the DB found), then once the design was done and production started for orders from distributors, they came out with the Gen 1 (this would be the same as the proto's - just ID'd correctly and exact manufacturing to technical specifications). I then reckon that Bob and his close pals and ridders broke quite a few (the weld issue) and that they then changed to the Gen 2 - the welded gusset.

The reason I think it's best to use - Gen 1 and Gen 2 is for their own ID, they are different, however small the change, it was an advancement in technology, also we now know that any bikes found below build 483 should be un-welded under the gusset -

Wikipedia -

Generation (from the Greek γενεά), also known as procreation, is the act of producing offspring
A generation can also be a stage or degree in a succession of natural descent
A generation can refer to stages of successive improvement in the development of a technology

Oxford -
Of a more advanced stage of technology than previous models or systems

The reason that I have done Gen 1 and Gen 2 Freestylers is they surely have to be known as a different build, a change is a change is a change. Another example that we know there was a change was they went from 3 digits for build number, and then got into four figures, where as Dans and your Sports both have leadings zero's (two in Dan's case) to make the build a four digit number.

I totally agree what you are saying that it is hardly a change, but large or small it is a change, so must be a different Generation. Just my thoughts of course, buy now as we have 72 Torker built frames known to exist, to me it makes sense knowing exactly the difference and where they occured in relation to build numbers / dates etc.

I am also still trying to gain a few months backwards, the max I can get is two at the moment (So the new find - dated Nov 1982 would become Sept 1982). We only then have YY and ZZ to find but that would take us back to July at the earliest. Your mag scan from early 1982 can not fit it then with the serials -  unless the picture was of a Prototype (which is what I am guessing). The reason we can not go back any more is that all the dates seem to fit and betwen Gen 1 Master and my Gen 2 Master -

TDD 4599 F   4599   Master Gen 1   July   1984
T 07844754 M   4754   Master Gen 2   July   1984

There is only a difference of build numbers of 156.

Hope the above makes sense.

Are you off to see Bob H at Rockford? If so, can you badger him and get any info etc, however small.

Jazz and Dave, can you post your full serials to add to the list.

Talk soon.

J.

[JAY]

All makes sense , totally understand why you have gone with gen 1 and Gen 2 , Totally agree the changes are improvements , but its always gonna be a Gen 1 .All interesting stuff J , keep it up...............

Love to have a copy of those drawings .....

[billstup]

There might be a Gen 1 in the UK , but I`d need to go and take some pictures first 

[JAY]

WOW , these things are popping up from all over the place , Make it soon Billy .....

[Bob_Acid]

good stuff 

[Jazzchimp]

Post number when I get chance 

[Rombloke]

yeah im not sure if billy is talking about the same one that i know of, but i do keep trying to persuade the owner(who is a member on here) to part with it

Dave

[billstup]

Yeah I think it`s the same one Dave, the thing is I haven`t even seen it yet so it might not even be a Gen 1 

[Rombloke]

trust me billy.....he knows his onions mate....even tho hes a skater, lol

its a gen 1

Dave

[billstup]

But is it a Gen 1 type Gen 1 

[Rombloke]

no welds under neath if thats what you mean...ffs....gen1 gen1...lol

Dave

[JAY]

No Dave , its 1st gen Gen1.........lol  , in my book anyway 

[SaMAlex]

Im a little confused, but what does all that make this one, and has it been added to the list?

http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php'topic=29207.0

[JAY]

Yeah , that one is on the list and it is a 2nd generation, Haro Gen1 Freestyler.  (or a Gen2 )

[SaMAlex]

Yeah , that one is on the list and it is a 2nd generation, Haro Gen1 Freestyler.  (or a Gen2 )

Cool, thanks for clearing that up. I’m easily confused 

[Jim]

That'll be me then  I'll take ya's sum pix at some point (i.e. when Dave/Bill reminds me). It's under the garage micro ramp at the mo,  I've got to take a sheet of ply off so don't hold your breath  just at the mo    I'll warn you now - it's not pretty...