Author Topic: BMX WAS NOT CONCIEVED IN AMERICA (Read 4498 times)

snav69 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 12, 2006, 03:36 PM »

Bloody Hell , BMXing is older than Gods Dog

Paul

jT Racing · « **Reply #26 on:** December 12, 2006, 08:10 PM »

Jan kind op een pijlstaart rog

america made it cool though.

Coastvl · « **Reply #27 on:** December 13, 2006, 11:25 AM »

Quote from: zed4130 on December 10, 2006, 05:57 PM

Thats my dad up front

Thats funny. My father in law would be about that age when he was still living in Holland.
I just sent him a pic of it.

RATTY · « **Reply #28 on:** December 13, 2006, 11:27 AM »

Quote from: billstup on December 11, 2006, 09:02 PM

Riding brakeless too

I think the cycle speedway boys rode with a fixed wheel bill, we tried them out on our trakkies, just b4 the bmx scene started, they were bloody dangerous, but great fun

theRuler · « **Reply #29 on:** December 13, 2006, 12:09 PM »

the guys in that photo aint riding with fixed wheels
or the foot down cornering would be, well, entertaining to watch

RATTY · « **Reply #30 on:** December 13, 2006, 02:07 PM »

Quote from: theRuler on December 13, 2006, 12:09 PM

the guys in that photo aint riding with fixed wheels
or the foot down cornering would be, well, entertaining to watch

good point!!

theRuler · « **Reply #31 on:** December 13, 2006, 02:13 PM »

i think that the racing in dirt on pushbikes thing has probably been around almost as long as pushbikes

however, it was the americans that coined the phrase "bmx" and shaped it into the form we know and love

credit is due there, to the likes of scott b, and of course rick twomey

reilley1 · « **Reply #32 on:** November 18, 2007, 09:35 PM »

Old subject but here's a little twist. (Roger D was born in 44)

RATTY · « **Reply #33 on:** November 19, 2007, 12:14 AM »

Nice find, this topic came up yesterday and I spent half hour trying to find it

thesku11s · « **Reply #34 on:** November 19, 2007, 12:56 AM »

Quote from: RATTY on December 13, 2006, 11:27 AM

Quote from: billstup on December 11, 2006, 09:02 PM
Riding brakeless too
I think the cycle speedway boys rode with a fixed wheel bill, we tried them out on our trakkies, just b4 the bmx scene started, they were bloody dangerous, but great fun

cycle speedway does NOT involved fixed wheels. Your thinking of track racing.

People still do cycle speedway today, the bikes used now are basically steel track bikes with cruiserish bars and most importantly a FREEWHEEL!!

That pic is well awesome, and cyclespeedway definetely counts as BMX.

RATTY · « **Reply #35 on:** November 19, 2007, 08:12 AM »

Would that have always been the case? My memory of this would have been pre 1980 when I worked in a bike shop and im sure we had a rider bring his bike in for work.

dialledbikes · « **Reply #36 on:** November 19, 2007, 08:50 AM »

I imagine that the concept of "scrambling" push bikes on dirt/rough ground was taking place all over the world before BMX was "invented". I remember riding on a bit of wasteland with mates on our Grifters a good few years before we'd heard of or seen a BMX bike.

But the Americans packaged it into the sport we grew to love, so gotta give people like OM Breithaupt and all those other early guys credit for that.

kamodo · « **Reply #37 on:** November 19, 2007, 11:00 AM »

I rode my cruiser at a cycle speedway meeting in Sussex in the early 90s, 'Hellingly Lions' was the club,just off the A22 Eastbourne road. They gave me lots of stick for going round on a cruiser. So I was lent a cyclespeedway bike, and managed to win the meeting. The pedals were like old Grifter pedals with sandpaper wrapped all the way round, and you had to do a one pedal start with the trailing pedal touching the back of the leg.on the ground......they were bigger tossers than mountain bikers

Pro-tec · « **Reply #38 on:** November 19, 2007, 05:11 PM »

Quote from: RATTY on November 19, 2007, 08:12 AM

Would that have always been the case? My memory of this would have been pre 1980 when I worked in a bike shop and im sure we had a rider bring his bike in for work.

Yup, I too worked in my uncle's motorcycle and cycle shop in the early 80's and we had a local speedway track. I can confirm early speedway bikes had no freewheel. And speaking as someone who was around in the early days of four cross (or cycle supercross as it was known), mountainbikers are far from being lesser tossers to speedway riders. No no, lycra-clad uber tossers would be a far better description.

kamodo · « **Reply #39 on:** November 20, 2007, 08:08 PM »

Touchy.................

Dennis Dain · « **Reply #40 on:** November 25, 2007, 01:24 AM »

The whole "history of BMX" thing can be debated forever. I would venture to say when the first bicycle was invented it was riden on dirt roads as much as paved.

My wife found this photo in her family history stuff. These are actually family members from the early 1900s.

There are egotists over here that have said they created BMX. The same way Christopher Columbus discovered America. (pay no attention to those native American Indians) LOL

It is all perspective. Someone earlier said something like BMX was first organized into a sport in Southern California.
I am sure there were races held in other places even before us. But I think, and I have not seen anything to disprove this, that Southern California had the first organizations dedicated to promoting BMX races.

In that picture on the cover of that Holland magazine, doesn't one of the bikes have a number plate on it? If so, I would think it is either for scoring or he was imitating his MX hero.

Anyway, this could be an endless debate. But a cool one.

MartyC · « **Reply #41 on:** November 25, 2007, 10:36 PM »

Quote from: Pro-tec on November 19, 2007, 05:11 PM

Quote from: RATTY on November 19, 2007, 08:12 AM
Would that have always been the case? My memory of this would have been pre 1980 when I worked in a bike shop and im sure we had a rider bring his bike in for work.

Yup, I too worked in my uncle's motorcycle and cycle shop in the early 80's and we had a local speedway track. I can confirm early speedway bikes had no freewheel. And speaking as someone who was around in the early days of four cross (or cycle supercross as it was known), mountainbikers are far from being lesser tossers to speedway riders. No no, lycra-clad uber tossers would be a far better description.

So explain how you can corner one footed on a fixed wheel bike? I've ridden track for my sins and trust me you can't corner one footed on a fixed wheel out of the pin no matter how talented or flexible you are.

Not the be all and end of knowledge but this little lnk on wikipedia seems to cast doubt on the fixed wheels theory and I'm 100% certain that when I worked in a bike shop during the 80's cycle speedway bikes ran freewheels....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_speedway

Just my 2peneth worth

RATTY · « **Reply #42 on:** November 25, 2007, 10:41 PM »

Marty, I agree that its hard to corner with one foot down, but I really am sure mate. I even remember trying a fixed wheel out on my trakky

Pro-tec · « **Reply #43 on:** November 27, 2007, 07:40 PM »

Getting back on track, it is obvious to all that tearing around in the dirt and pulling tricks has been around since the dawn of the bicycle. Yup, those late 19th century circus stunt riders were rad and no mistake. And who could forget the scene from Butch Cassady and the Sundance Kid with Paul Newman 'avin it to the tune of Raindrops keep fallin' on My Head.
So what's my point here? People have always farted around on bikes since way back when. But the specific sport of BMX as we know and love it today most certainly has its roots firmly planted in Southern California some 30-40 years ago. It is indeed this particular movement that started the ball rolling and brought us all here today.
Amen.

PS. As I remember OLD speedway bikes were based on stripped down road racers and had a fixed wheel. I'd say the Wikipedia quote is from a later perspective given the mountain bike reference.

spillers#1 · « **Reply #44 on:** November 27, 2007, 07:43 PM »

Quote from: Pro-tec on November 27, 2007, 07:40 PM

As quoted from Wikipedia. "Each rider uses a light-weight single-speed bicycle (equipped with a freewheel mechanism, and usually based around a stripped-down mountain bike frame)"

Me and Ratty aren't debating how things are now just how it was the last time we saw a cycle speedway bike (before the advent of the mountainbike). As I remember OLD speedway bikes were based on stripped down road racers and had a fixed wheel. I'd say the above quote is from a later perspective given the mountain bike reference.

Getting back on track though, it is obvious to all that tearing around in the dirt and pulling tricks has been around since the dawn of the bicycle. Yup, those late 19th century circus stunt riders were rad and no mistake. And who could forget the scene from Butch Cassady and the Sundance Kid with Paul Newman 'avin it to the tune of Raindrops keep fallin' on My Head.
So what's my point here? People have always farted around on bikes since way back when. But the specific sport of BMX as we know and love it today most certainly has its roots firmly planted in Southern California some 30-40 years ago. It is indeed this particular movement that started the ball rolling and brought us all here today.
Amen.

GOD BLESS YOU BROTHER PRO-TEC

MartyC · « **Reply #45 on:** November 27, 2007, 08:49 PM »

Quote from: Pro-tec on November 27, 2007, 07:40 PM

PS. As I remember OLD speedway bikes were based on stripped down road racers and had a fixed wheel. I'd say the Wikipedia quote is from a later perspective given the mountain bike reference.

Not that I am pedantic, but maybe you should take a look at the pics on this site http://www.cyclespeedway.co.uk/html/history.html and this one http://www.freewebs.com/pedalheads/thisiscyclespeedway.htm and tell me what you see in terms of one-footed cornering from back in the 40's or 50's and even as late as the 80's - no sign of a fixed wheel and they don't look much like mountain bikes so I'm not so sure your comment is valid. Looking into the history of it I can't find any reference to fixed wheels on any site, new or old.

Pro-tec · « **Reply #46 on:** November 28, 2007, 06:07 PM »

Well there you go. Freewheels it was then. Thanks for that. Although in my defence your honour I got the mountain bike reference from the Wikipedia page you posted. MartyC, your research into speedway has raised a whole new issue now though.
Its interesting to see how close these two disciplines are. By this I mean they are both dirt track cycle contact sports derived from equivalent motorcycle sports. But now I'm left wondering why it took so much longer for BMX to take off than it did??!! Is it simply because Speedway has been going for that much longer than Motocross?
Well, yes and no. Brace yourselves for a story of missed European oppertunity.
It appears that Motocross has been around in Europe since before WWII. America on the other hand had focused purely on flat track racing on bikes like the Harley Davidson XR750 (oh, man how much do I want one of these!!) as ridden and repeatedly trashed by yer man Evel Knievel. Now oddly, according to my source (Google) it wasn't until the late 60's that North America decided to adopt Motocross. This era as we know coincides with the birth of BMX too!!!
So this begs the question; what the bejeezus had us Europeans been doing in the 20 odd year interim period while the concept of BMX has been staring us in the face all along? Why did we stop at fekkin' Cycle Speedyawnway??!!
Hang your heads people.

reilley1 · « **Reply #47 on:** November 29, 2007, 02:52 AM »

Quote

Why did we stop at fekkin' Cycle Speedyawnway??!!
Hang your heads people.

You guys didn't have Schwinn Stingrays....

Pro-tec · « **Reply #48 on:** November 29, 2007, 11:34 PM »

Right enough. But now I have another somewhat controversial question: It's easy to see that 20" bikes are ideal for freestyle what with the lack of gyroscopic forces a smaller wheel will generate etc. But why have the vast majority of bikes being raced always run 20" wheels while a 24" cruiser is much more adept at ironing out the bumps and jumps of a race track? Sure, good tracks now are silky smooth and easily ridden on a 20" but this point is more pertinent when you consider the old rutted tracks BMX cut its teeth on.
It's interesting to see that instead of manufacturers developing bikes to a harsh and unpredictable terrain, the tracks themselves have undergone radical development to enable 20" bikes to be raced more effectively on them. Don't get me wrong here, I love racing BMX, have enormous respect for everyone involved and wouldn't have it any other way. But my question is this (deep breath), is the continued dominance of the 20" BMX simply down to an evolutionary link with the Stingray? A victory of nostalgic form over function perhaps?