Tyre Choice for Dirt Tracks

[Mikku]

I’ve been thinking for a while about making a slight change of tyre choice, a thought which has increased following my recent off at Midoriyama. At the moment I’m running 1.75 Maxxis DTH on both the front and back. These are great tyres I know, but for Midoriyama, with its all-dirt surface, which varies from dusty to damp (it's continually being watered during both practice and race days), I think a slightly wider and/or grippier tyre up front would suit both me and the track better, particularly in the corners. I hasten to add that this is not a knee-jerk reaction to my fall, but a genuine belief that I can have more grip in the corners without sacrificing much elsewhere.

So my first thought was to put a wider (1.95) DTH on the front but I’m also considering knobblier alternatives ranging from a good ol’ comp 3 (albeit a new, repop one), to something like a mid-school Primo Dirt Monster (which are still popping up NOS) or the Kenda Kwick, both of which are shown below.

What say you Radsters?

[Dark Diggler]

Ive used these, they are pretty good and lighter that primo

https://www.supercrossbmx.com/products/supercross-blue-streak-tires

[Mikku]

They look quite good, and I see that the 2.125s are currently on sale for $13!!! For comparison purposes, I've posted a pic below, together with 2 other interesting options I've also seen for sale:- the mid-school Maxxis Maxx Daddy (2.0) and GT AA Pro (2.125).

[Mikku]

Have just seen these GT "Brody Knobs" from our friends over at Bankrupt Bike Parts:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GT-RACING-BRODY-KNOBS-SPECIAL-BMX-TYRE-CHOOSE-20-x-2-125-or-20-x-1-75-BARGAIN/201959072276'ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=501968024931&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

Made by Kenda apparently. Any more suggestions?

As I'm leaning more towards a wider, knobblier front tyre, and intend keeping the DTH 1.75s on the rear, I have to admit that those chunky Maxx Daddies are tempting, then I can keep an all-Maxxis set-up!

[Drawn]

Possibly a Holy Roller by Maxxis?
Its not super chunky but has a good set up to it. Not super slick but not Comp 3'esque

The Max Daddy is, if anything like the one on a mates bike that's build around Mid school stuff, very aggressive and would be a bit overkill for your needs.
Pictures don't exactly show how tall it is haha.

keeps your all maxxis thing going aswell 

[oldtired]

Maxxis Holy Rollers are ok , very similar to the Supercross ones , tread may be a little deeper ,  also lighter than the primo's ,  the  max daddy are more suited to trails or winter riding when it's wet n muddy , big deep tread pattern on those, they do slip on dry  dusty tracks , my elbows can stand testament to that  ,    , ran the holy rollers through the wet  months over here with no slide outs, also stick to tarmack pretty well, now it's dried out a bit i'm running WTP Grippin'  kevlar bead 1.9,  front and rear,  again seem ok deep enough tread to cope with dust n loose dirt, plus they're high pressure so roll smooth ,    Odyssey do some good tires ususlly labled as street or dirt tires,  tend to have deeper tread than the park version,   

[Mikku]

Thanks for the input guys! 

Pics of both of those below for reference. Interesting to compare and contrast the different tread patterns.

[x600se]

Watch out for your tire weight Mick because its not just the raw weight your adding to the bike, especially when you're setting yourself up as a racer your rotational weight will come into play (crucial for gate starts). Try a sprint on a set of standard race wheels, steel spokes etc. with a street / big knobbly dirt tire and then try the same sprint with a high end race wheel with ti spokes and a DTH. and always go for the skinniest  / lightest tube you can get away with, like an Maxxis Ultralight 20x1.75 (not sure if theres a 20x1.5 but it would probably be OK). big chunky 20x1.95s and 2.20s etc will all just add more rotational weight. I'd say a 20x1.75 Maxxis Holy Roller is about as heavy as youd want to go and even then only for the front if you still feel you need the extra knobbly bits.

Maxxis DTH Folding - 290g (20"x1.5"), 335g (20"x1.75"), 475g (20"x2.20")

Maxxis Holy Roller - 425g (20"x1.75"), 495g (20"x1.95")

WTP Grippin - 592g (20"x1.9"), 661g (20"x2.1"), 669g (20"x2.25")

http://www.tiogausa.com/bmx_race/products/tires/fastr-2/

[Mikku]

There was me getting carried away with tyre widths and tread patterns, I hadn't given rotational weight much thought but seeing those weight comparisons really brings it home, eh. I hear what you say Dan, and as always, am grateful for the advice. I know I need to focus more on my fitness and riding skills (or lack thereof) rather than playing around with tyres (or wheels for that matter) but that's not so much fun! Plus I'm feeling sorry for myself and need some retail therapy!!

Thanks mate!

PS Just had a quick look at the Tioga site as well and the PowerBlock S-spec and normal PowerBlocks, both in 1.75 size, come in at 285g and 350g respectively.

[Drawn]

If we start talking rotational weight then might want to get onto hub drag, aerodynamics and compactness of the surface in correlation to the pressure of the tube (don't forget the temperature coefficient can change this) 

In all honesty, if you feel you don't have grip in the front then go a bigger tyre, and try the slightly more bitey one (if it is really bad). even just a 1.95 front and a 1.75 rear can work in keeping it feeling stable.

Have to remember, we are talking about a grassroots level.
Rotational mass can actually be handy, especially in a pump race. Prime example, a cruisers wheels act like a flywheel compared to a 20.
What you will find is, that is has more rolling resistance slowing you down. The smoother and more pressure the less rolling resistance but also less contact area against the ground.

So if you are feeling like its washing out find a bigger of what you have.
or just keep the 1.75s on and try not to focus on that too much and learn how the bike feels when it starts to get a bit skatey.

[Mikku]

Thanks man! Yeah, interesting though it all is, I don't want (or need) to get too carried away with the technical stuff given my level. I've therefore narrowed down my options to the following three:-

1. Try a DTH 1.95 on the front. Weight increase = 30g;
2. Try a Holy Roller 1.75 on the front. Weight increase = 90g;
3. Keep the DTH 1.75 on the front and learn how to ride!! Weight increase = 0g plus no extra expense!!

I also didn't know/realise that DTH stands for Drop The Hammer! Every day's a school day with this bmx lark, eh!

[Drawn]

30 or even 90 grams is stuff all though.
Could probably get more than that off mine if I was to wash the mud off it haha.

[oldtired]

as above ,  for the sake of what it will cost,  try out both tires, if one option makes you feel more confident in corners and damper conditions  then stick with it   


DTH ,   driven to hospital   

[griff]

30 or even 90 grams is stuff all though.
Could probably get more than that off mine if I was to wash the mud off it haha.

A pre-race dump would be worth at least 300g off

[Gary72]

When I was racing a few years back, I was running a Powerblock on the rear and a Kenda Smallblock 8 on the front. Seemed to work fine for me.

[Mikku]

Thanks for the replies! Driven To Hospital - I like it!!

A pre-race dump would be worth at least 300g off

But would that reduce rotational weight?!?

[Drawn]

Think of it like a road car becoming a track car but leaving the stock drivetrain.
You strip it of unneeded weight. 

[Mikku]

Went back to Midoriyama last Sunday and had a good butcher's at what tyres people were running. As anticipated, most riders run modern tyres with plenty of Tioga Powerblocks and Maxxis DTH and Torch on display, though a few had a knobblier front tyre including one guy with a Holy Roller/DTH front/rear combo. I think I'm becoming a bit of a tyre nerd!!

[Mikku]

On my recent trip to the States I picked up various things on the cheap including a new tyre! As shown below, I've decided to try a 1.75 Holy Roller, as I fancied trying out a knobblier tyre but didn't want to change both the tread pattern and size at the same time. It also keeps the Maxxis theme going.

I won't get to try it out for a month or so as I'm still signed off the bike, but as and when I get back on track, I'll be interested to see how it compares to the DTH and whether I notice any difference between the two.

[Mikku]

Thought I'd update this thread with a few developments. On a recent practice ride I swapped over my front wheels to save the DTH for race days. That meant giving the Holy Roller its first run-out. On the roads, the extra tread made its presence known on the noise front but that was about the only noticeable difference, ignoring of course the non-matching wheelset, as shown below!

The following weekend I then ended up giving the same set-up an unexpected race debut. The track was dusty, so I decided to leave the Holy Roller on to see how it compared to the DTH in race conditions. I definitely felt a difference over the first jump. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the bike felt a bit slower, the extra tread causing what I guess is more rolling resistance than the DTH. Whether that feeling translated into a slower time I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. It wasn't all bad news though because that extra tread made me feel a bit more confident going through the dusty berms. Mind over matter perhaps, but a tangible feeling nonetheless, especially after watching other riders going down.

So where does leave me now? Well if the track conditions are good then so far as I'm concerned, the DTH is unbeatable and that will be my number one tyre of choice. If, however, the conditions are not so good then I may put the Holy Roller on to give me that extra confidence in the berms. Horses for courses and all that!