Author Topic: Hot Heart with the Blues: Build Thread (Read 26069 times)

Avro · « **on:** October 23, 2016, 03:19 PM »

I have been looking forward to this, now it is time to begin

This project was originally planned to feature a lugged Tange frame / ARX fork I have but the project has a different focus now; a T2 Tange Hot Heart with 2B Tange TX 1200 Champion fork. The lugged frame is cute but perhaps not worth the effort I have been putting into parts collection and selection to this point.

I bought the Hot Heart as a complete but none of the parts were original, mostly repop stuff. I could not really afford it so turned over the parts after first trying them on the lugged frame just in case that project would re-ignite. The Hot Heart frame and fork had been powder coated, badly at that. It was so thick with drips and massive build up in some areas. It was the kind of powder job that turns people off power coating full stop. Looks very shiney from a distance but up close Yuk. All the detail was lost, the tig welds at the steering head/gusset were lost, the frame number completely invisible

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So, the powder had to go. I already knew that the frame was chrome underneath, I was hoping for no nasty surprises with its condition. Time to slap on the Synstrype.
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Phew, it was much better than expected
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Yes, the chrome is dull and tired but nothing peeling and hardly any pitting at all. It looks like someone has been all over it with a brillo. I am very optimistic about the forthcoming rechrome.

I was a little puzzled by the blobby welding where the chain stays meet the bottom bracket, very un-Tange like, 'Burneresque' really! However, the welds are chromed so perhaps they are not rewelds, something I feared. I am still not sure what to make of it, I have not seen enough Hot Hearts to know if it is normal (thoughts would be welcome). I considered grinding them back and 'remodeling' but that would be fakery, if they are battle scars then they can stay.
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It feels good to make a start, more to come, thank you for reading.
Peter

chrisv39 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 23, 2016, 03:29 PM »

Can you not revive the original chrome rather than going down the route of an expensive rechrome?

That Swan Guy · « **Reply #2 on:** October 23, 2016, 03:31 PM »

Not if it's been scratched

Avro · « **Reply #3 on:** October 23, 2016, 03:41 PM »

The micro-scratching is all over the frame. Also the chrome is very thin in places, absent in some areas where it appears the nickle has been uncovered. This appears to be the result of an very aggressive polish at some point.

chrisv39 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 23, 2016, 07:05 PM »

Looks like it's been "keyed" to take the powder, not sure if this is necessary for powder as I'm only familiar with wet painting but I know a rechrome is very expensive.

oldschoolace · « **Reply #5 on:** October 23, 2016, 07:14 PM »

Those welds on the bb are deffo non factory. Looks like someone's Dad did it

That Swan Guy · « **Reply #6 on:** October 23, 2016, 07:48 PM »

Quote from: chrisv39 on October 23, 2016, 07:05 PM

Looks like it's been "keyed" to take the powder, not sure if this is necessary for powder as I'm only familiar with wet painting but I know a rechrome is very expensive.

Even keying chrome won't stop powder from peeling off and when it goes it goes.

If you're going to powder a chrome frame get it de-chromed first or else you'll regret it

chrisv39 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 23, 2016, 07:55 PM »

Quote from: That Swan Guy on October 23, 2016, 07:48 PM

Quote from: chrisv39 on October 23, 2016, 07:05 PM
Looks like it's been "keyed" to take the powder, not sure if this is necessary for powder as I'm only familiar with wet painting but I know a rechrome is very expensive.

Even keying chrome won't stop powder from peeling off and when it goes it goes.

If you're going to powder a chrome frame get it de-chromed first or else you'll regret it

Is it not just when chrome is flaking that it needs to be removed befrore powder? Weren't some frames like redlines and Haros powdered over chrome or were these wet painted?

chrisv39 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 23, 2016, 07:59 PM »

Quote from: oldschoolace on October 23, 2016, 07:14 PM

Those welds on the bb are deffo non factory. Looks like someone's Dad did it

I know what you mean, but my GT has lovely neat welds everywhere barring where the seat stays meet the seat tube where it looks like the welders gone for his tea break and let the apprentice finish it off.

That Swan Guy · « **Reply #9 on:** October 23, 2016, 08:05 PM »

Quote from: chrisv39 on October 23, 2016, 07:55 PM

Quote from: That Swan Guy on October 23, 2016, 07:48 PM
Quote from: chrisv39 on October 23, 2016, 07:05 PM
Looks like it's been "keyed" to take the powder, not sure if this is necessary for powder as I'm only familiar with wet painting but I know a rechrome is very expensive.

Even keying chrome won't stop powder from peeling off and when it goes it goes.

If you're going to powder a chrome frame get it de-chromed first or else you'll regret it
Is it not just when chrome is flaking that it needs to be removed befrore powder? Weren't some frames like redlines and Haros powdered over chrome or were these wet painted?

I'm sure that 99% of factory bikes were paint back in the day, I know my GTs are.

Avro · « **Reply #10 on:** October 23, 2016, 08:15 PM »

Thanks for the input, really appreciated and I so hope there will be more.
I highlighted those welds because they looked out of place, but they have been chromed.
If it helps, the bottom bracket tube has been perforated to accept the chain stays and they fit perfectly.
May be there was a factory visit from, say, Nottingham? Who knows. Regardless, they stay and of course they do. Provenance is often counter to desire; but you have to run with it or else you counterfeit.

That Swan Guy · « **Reply #11 on:** October 23, 2016, 08:20 PM »

I must have a look at Mrs S G's HH and see if hers is like that!

chrisv39 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 23, 2016, 08:33 PM »

Looking at them welds again they do look pretty "beefy" compared to the seat tube to bb weld!

Mikku · « **Reply #13 on:** October 24, 2016, 12:50 AM »

Yeah, I'd have to agree that those welds look very un-Tange like, especially knowing what quality-control is like over here. Aesthetics aside, however, they do look strong as, so no worries there. Good luck with the build - looking forward to seeing how it turns out!

Avro · « **Reply #14 on:** October 24, 2016, 12:59 PM »

Frame and forks all packed up, really packed well and put in a strong box. Even the most determined courier won't be able to damage it. Hopefully I will get it sent away this week. I have only ever sent parts off for new chrome once and that was a rear bumper and two front quarter bumpers for a Ford Escort Mexico Mk1, what a car that was!. I am very excited about getting the frame back already.
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Time to have a look at the wheels. The rims are Ukai Speedlines in anodised blue

. They are in super condition, another polish and they will look nearly new. The hubs are Shimano DX, or possibly MX, dated 1979. I am not sure which as I have seen both types pretty much interchangeable and seen both types in both boxes. Not that it matters anyway, they are nice and shiney and I like cassette hubs. The cassette hub is silky smooth. Spokes are new Araya stainless.
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I did have one issue with the front hub. The hubs were sold to me as DX BMX hubs, obviously not much of a problem there. However I later noticed that the axle standard on the front hub was not a BMX standard, at least not one I am familiar with. The axle was 8mm and not 10mm, also the overall width was a nut too wide. I am thinking it was probably configured for a road or track bike. This was an easy fix as a 10mm axle swapped right in and removing the existing cone lock nuts and replacing them with two nos Suzue 'half' nuts did the trick. The only noticable difference now is a much closer tolerence between the cones and the ball bearing / grease retainers. Sorted.
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I take wheels to be built at my local bike shop. I guess I should teach myself how to build them but then I would have very little reason to go the local bike shop. That would be a pity because I really like them although trying to talk to them about BMX is impossible! Lycra is all they know but for a little bike shop they are fab.

At least now you have seen the first of the blue parts. I was chatting to someone the other day and they mentioned the blue theme and how they had tried it before but was disappointed because of all the different blues he ended up with. I think that is going to be almost impossible to avoid unless one were to strip everything and get them anodised at the same time and at the same place. Even then different base metals may result in differing shades. I will just hope it looks ok in the end, time will tell.

MartyC · « **Reply #15 on:** October 24, 2016, 01:36 PM »

Something you have to remember is that Tange offered a range of frame kits that comprised pre-fabricated sections and tube sets as well, this meant that companies bought the various pre-fab sections and tube sets and finished the kits in house, hence the significant difference in welding styles.

Avro · « **Reply #16 on:** October 24, 2016, 02:13 PM »

That is very true, and thank you for pointing it out. Tange were a tube manufacturer, a competitor to Reynolds, Columbus, Koizumi et al. They also made lugs, fittings, dropouts and much more. It is a mistake to look at Tange as a BMX brand as BMX was only one element of their business. Hot Hearts appear in many different forms and are often branded differently depending on the market for which they were intended. I recently did a lot of research into a lugged frame I have all of the above was true for that as well.

The only caveat to that is that my Hot Heart has a conventional Tange serial number. Other 'makes' supplied complete or as kits by Tange do not, at least not so far as my research showed. I have a Taiwan made Diamond back, considered inferior to Japanese models, and the welding on that is superior to the chainstay welds on my Hot Heart. Anyway, I had great fun researching Tange and it still interests me. There is book in there somewhere: BMX componentary: the where the how and the who.

rodriguez · « **Reply #17 on:** October 25, 2016, 01:25 AM »

That's a genuine Hot Heart, the front end is tig welded and the rear end is mig welded, why it was done that way I've no idea.

It's basically the same frame as the Kuwie ET and if you get a close up of the rear end of one of them they are the same.

The drops will have been mig welded to the looptail and in turn it's mig welded to the frame same as a Burner and same as yours.

You could have smoothed and tidied the welds but that's the way they are, worry no more

Gnarlyscoots · « **Reply #18 on:** October 26, 2016, 03:55 PM »

Quote from: Avro on October 24, 2016, 12:59 PM

I did have one issue with the front hub. The hubs were sold to me as DX BMX hubs, obviously not much of a problem there. However I later noticed that the axle standard on the front hub was not a BMX standard, at least not one I am familiar with. The axle was 8mm and not 10mm.

All the early looseball Shimano hubs, DX or MX (DX being anodised, MX being standard silver) had 10mm rear axles and 8mm front axles. They were simply the best hub around, cassette drive wise, with a very tight pawl ratio. I personally loved these hubs over any of the overpriced varieties that followed back then

Avro · « **Reply #19 on:** October 26, 2016, 10:07 PM »

I hoped it was something like that! The pawl action is almost like a road bike hub (not quite Chris King but getting there). I have a set of Suntour hubs laced to Z rims on another bike and that rear, a cassette, has an equally good pawl action. In fact I wonder if the two cassette assemblies are the same; they certainly look uncannily similar.
I have read that the cassette hubs are not as strong as screw on freewheels? I would be surprised if this was the case as road bikes seem to cope, track bikes too.
Why is it that the majority of old school BMX bikes have screw on freewheels? In terms of pawl action, and therefore the ALL important quick engage, cassette hubs are far superior.

Avro · « **Reply #20 on:** November 13, 2016, 02:18 PM »

A big parcel turned up this week, very exciting, it was from the chromers. I was not nervous because the base frame and fork were pretty good and my correspondence with the firm was very positive. Still I was thrilled, perfect.
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The rear dropouts were very good before but not this good!
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...and another shot for good measure.
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I have also been trying to source the last remaining parts I need for the build. This has been rewarding in itself. I swapped a pair of Shimano DX pedals for a seat post clamp, yes you read right

I am a bit short at the moment and had to impose new rules on myself regarding buying parts. All parts had to be acquired through trade or funded by ebay vinyl record sales. I have been very successful on both fronts although parting with so many rare records that I have had for nearly 30 years was tough. Seat post clamp is a beauty mind and perfect for this build:
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Avro · « **Reply #21 on:** November 13, 2016, 02:44 PM »

It is good to be back on the build, I am going to take it slowly as it will have to be the last for a while

I find sourcing decals quite fun except when trying to source from France

The frame decals I source from Delcals. They are specials in deep blue made for me. I know most of you will know about Delcals but just to say that he has to be the most accomodating and reliable supplier out there. I have yet to order off-the-peg decals from him, all specials, and every time it has been perfect. If you are looking for decals but you do not see what you need on the Delcals site just tell him what you need and he will work with you if he can. Furthermore the prices are great too. Extraordinary

Ok, stickered up:
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I had already bought some of the stickers from another great decal site in the States called Velocals.com. They are primarily a supplier of road bike decals, and a huge range to boot. They did however have the Tange Motocross Tubing decal I was after. So, to make the order viable, I added a 'Made in Japan' sticker (not og but I like it) and they also had the Tange fork decal with a very neat custom colour ordering system so I could easily gete them in blue

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I have actually arsed-up one of the downtube decals but I am not going to show you that

I am sure Delcals will sort it as always.

Another score was a pair of O.G.K. Mach grips. I was alarmed at the prices asked for nos og grips, it is incredible really. I do not have that kind of money so had to compromise. I got the grips off the BMX museum, they are actually for 25mm bar fitment, apart from that they are exactly the same even down to the part number funnily enough.
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More tomorrow I hope.

factory pilot · « **Reply #22 on:** November 13, 2016, 02:46 PM »

Oooh I love a good build thread ... Keep it coming Peter ... Fabulous looking Chrome ... Love a Hot Heart!

Avro · « **Reply #23 on:** November 13, 2016, 02:53 PM »

I have just noticed that I have arsed-up one of the fork decals as well

I have managed to save that one: phew

Taipan · « **Reply #24 on:** November 13, 2016, 03:14 PM »

Looking good so far

keep updating

Author Topic: Hot Heart with the Blues: Build Thread (Read 26069 times)

rodriguez