A revisionist view of 80s BMX ... What do you think?

[factory pilot]

So I was talking to Andy (DTTDB) at MK and the phrase .... "It's only a TA " came up in conversation and got me thinking how certain bikes, brands and parts have almost become devalued( in terms of nostalgia not monetary terms ) in recent years...
What I mean is as a kid I would have died to have seen ( let alone own ) TA's, Streetbeats, Pro Performers, Quads, Rippers, Pro Burners etc, etc

In today's world of OSBMX they don't seem to carry the love they once held for many of us....
At the other end of the spectrum things that are now rare are valued higher ( both in esteem and monetary value ) ... I'm talking your VDCs, GJSs, GHP Trix etc

As a kid my Haro plate made me feel a million dollars ...

Can those Radsters who've been back in the scene the longest share their thoughts and a possible time line of how things were found and how the perception of various bikes has changed over time ?

What about you newbies too.. What excites you .. What floats your boat .. What is your Grail?

[oldschoolace]

For me it's overexposure. Think I may have even mentioned it at MK.
EVERYONE does their TA white or chrome with the usual red, white and blue colour scheme so they end up a little boring
( There I said it    )

Haros are the same, the world is overrun with masters, fst's and sports and few stray from the expected colourways. I don't know if it's a lack of individuality, wanting to fit in, wanting it to look like the magazine shots bitd or just a need to keep the resale value high? Probably a bit of all of them, but as a result we get bored and seek the exotic or unusual.

I hang my head in shame but I actually said to Rich on seeing the haro tent "ah it's just a load of stock haros"
I did have a look round in the end on the Sunday but I did find myself a little bored looking at over restored bikes. The odd survivor was a joy to behold

I guess what I'm trying to say is familiarity breed contempt

[Gnarlyscoots]

After ruining my Grifter on many occasions, the sight of 'real' Bmx's hitting the streets back in 1979 was what got me excited. Mongoose, Diamond Back's and Puch's were the bikes everybody was going for, but I decided on a Raleigh Super Burner. Bad choice I know 

But it was the magazines that showed me what was coming out of the US, and we were so behind here in the UK, in reference to the local bike shops. The lad over the road was a spoilt urchin, and his parents bought him a Torker. Well, I was hooked. The twin top tubes, the chrome, the superb decals. I wanted one, and worked damned hard to get one. I also remember back then that the parts we fitted, or wanted to fit, were the top end items, and were so cheap compared to todays asking prices.

I think Clint said about all there needs to be said though. EVERYBODY builds their bikes the same, and they all work off getting the bike to match the decals.

TA's.......Red, Blue and white or chrome. All the same parts, all the same colour's. And that is boring, thus "Oh look, it's just another TA".

Haro's.......I never even heard of them back then, living in a small town, and now there are thousand's of them in the scene. All looking exactly the same, all the same colour's, catalogue specific.

Very few people dare to step outside of the "norm" and build a bike like we did as kids, and I think a lot of that is solely down to re-sale value. Too many people look at their bikes as an investment, or try to recoup every penny spent on building it. Sad, but true.

I have 2 Direct Links, 1 Profile Prostyler, 1 Astron Pro, 2 Puch Trak Pro's, amongst others. All are relatively unknown, but I have them because they are 'different' from the norm, and different to what most others have, which is what I was like back then, and still am today. I have been guilty of buying and fitting 'exotic' parts to accentuate my bikes, but I have slowly been replacing those parts with items that are more becoming of what I would have been able to buy or afford back then 

[MartyC]

Many of the "rare" bikes we see a lot of today were not favoured back in the day which may explain why they pop up a lot today; they just didn't sell in large numbers but lots of stock may have been purchased.  I think I was lucky to see a lot of good bikes as I rode with a lot of sponsored riders plus I was sponsored by and worked at Heffs Bike Shop so got to see lots of exotica and a lot of tat (although we weren't a Raleigh dealer, we left that to Mal Rees! LOL).  I remember the following as desirable:

CW Phaze 1
Patterson
SE Quadangle
Redline PL/Carerra
Torker
Hutch
Haro Freesytler
PK Ripper (although a lot of the ones we sold broke)
Bandito
Skyway TA
DB Harry Leary
Champion
Kuwahara Laserlite
Vector
March
PR Racing

Like quite a few others, I don't remember VDC much, I remember GJS and a few other makes that weren't available in the UK through mainstream distributers like Astron, Powerlite, Panda and Ross.

Today the scene goes in circles and collectors want to get what they thought was rare and desirable bitd and build it to a top spec when in reality only a few people had Flight cranks or Profiles, most had Suntour/Sugino 3 piece cranks or 1 piece.  I remember when Tony Brennan got a fully loaded Redline with pinchless Flights, they were amazing cranks although I think he used to hate me having a go on it for fear I might break them!  There are a lot of high end builds with the best of everything on them that were actually rare bitd but it's whatever floats your boat!

[monkian]

I don't know how anyone could get bored with looking at a TA. I think maybe over time you might develop a sense of what looks right or wrong on a build but beyond the date of parts used that's always pretty subjective. There's probably more build options on a TA with the white or Chrome frames, team bikes etc than say a Laserlite but I never get bored of looking at one of those either. I guess maybe we might have stronger personal connections with bikes or brands or get inspired by a build and look to do something similar and things outside of that interest might have to work a bit harder to get your attention. I'm not sure there's general feelings or moods about these sort of things on any sort of universal level but I can see how trends might influence what's going on for a while. Maybe after years in the game and the more you learn about BMX history, the fringe brands will start to appeal and that only helps liven up the scene. For me it always comes down to a personal thing but that's not always fixed so maybe what's good on a goose won't always be good for your gander

[rodriguez]

Perfect example of a bike that doesn't get the respect it should are the GT race bikes, BITD they were the bike to have "round our way" (Northern Ireland), along with Kuwahara, Mongoose, Raleigh (Pro Burner), Diamond Back, etc the normal stuff that was available through the local bike shops, dream bikes to have where Hutch, PK Rippers Skyway TA etc.

In the collecting world GTs aren't that sought after and don't command high prices, victim of their own success they were so good and sold so well they aren't that rare and not being that hard to find the prices reflect that.

The exotica just doesn't do it for me VDC, GJS, JMC etc etc never heard of most of them BITD, I can appreciate them for what they are and understand why people want to have them and good luck to them but not for me.

[factory pilot]

Some brilliant thought provoking comments here ... Thanks lads 

I tend to remember favouring U.S. over UK riders/teams bikes just because it was different and exciting ( America was always perceived to be bigger and better in the 8Os ) and back then I loved the Freestyle bikes over Race bikes ... You could do tricks in the back garden and on your own.
Pegs, frames stands, Potts Mod, Rotors .. All very exciting and new.
Orange, green, pink etc ... Amazing colours again all new and exciting to me back then.
I have to say it but back then by 1984 I had the ( ignorant ) opinion that all race bikes were just chrome and the "same"

It's funny how many of us Clint are  almost bullied into doing Factory Spec bikes .. It is the "done thing" and people are often ridiculed by the 'bike nazis' for having a wrong seat or lever on a build..
I guess it is a fine line between 80s feel and clown bike though..

For me I had one bike and when the cables and tyres wore out I got new ones .. Snakebellies, coloured comp 3s, white walls .. 83,84 then 85 cables on an 82 bike ... Sacrilege today for some !

Admin and Mods what was it like for you at the beginning of Rad.. Was there a buzz finding those classic bikes mentioned above ... When did it become "just another TA" ?

[deeman]

I think at the age of 12-15 which is when most of us rode BMX hard, there was NOTHING better than getting the latest mag and drooling over the ads for bikes you rarely saw on every street corner. Fast forward 20 years and most people want to create the bikes in those ads as they made such a big impression on them when they were young......
Had my parents had enough money to go and buy say a Haro Master complete, I would have probably been SO stoked on it that I wouldn't of changed a single part! Let's face it, most kids BMX bikes looked like sacks of shite bitd with whatever we managed to beg/ borrow /steal with odd wheels and odd colours everywhere and while some favour the survivor look most will agree a factory catalogue look is far more aesthetically pleasing...especially if the bike is to be displayed or 'shown'. The 'scene' is more about building the bikes you could never afford as a kid.
It makes you wonder who actually owned all the bikes we have now 30 yrs ago as most of us can only recall one spoilt / rich kid who owned a fancy bike whilst everyone else was on Burners!
I think the reason a lot of pre 85 bikes end up looking a bit 'samey' is that the colour choices for parts were not that exciting before then and most decals/ graphics reflected that.....
I reckon it's only people who attend shows a lot that become a bit 'overexposed' to this stuff, personally I would get really excited if I saw someone riding a T/a down the road.....

[Gnarlyscoots]

I think the reason a lot of pre 85 bikes end up looking a bit 'samey' is that the colour choices for parts were not that exciting before then and most decals/ graphics reflected that.....

For me, I think and feel there are 2 main reasons. One is that too many people are worried about their 'payouts' to consider building a bike that strays from the perceived requirement of others, and two, a lot of people do not possess the creativeness to step outside of the box. Sounds a tad blunt I know, sorry, but you can take a chrome frame with dull looking decals and build it to a 'wow' factor.

It's the two things put together, lack of creativeness and fear of losing on your payout, that holds people back I think.

[rooski]

Think we have all seen plenty of certain bike and now, yes, it may seem the norm for us.

People not into the scene, but have had a bmx bitd are usually thrilled to see any o/s bike whatever it is!

A lot of people put the same parts on the same bikes and in most cases rightly so, but putting unusual parts on a bike can set it apart and gain interest, so why not a TA with all the bits from a silver streak?, A low end street bike with upgraded race parts, alloy wheels, no front brake, wider bars etc?

I don't think an expensive frameset needs all expensive parts and visa versa.

[oldschoolace]

Its one of the reasons why i have found myself with alot of survivor builds. Parts groupings you probably wouldnt even consider, character, reminiscence of childhood rides, rarity etc. I know i will never win anything with then but im not in it for that.

One of my fave parts i have got in recent times was a bold set of freestyle tyres. When i say bald i mean right down to the gum in nice oval skid mark indicating patches.... just as i had as a kid 

[factory pilot]

I think at the age of 12-15 which is when most of us rode BMX hard, there was NOTHING better than getting the latest mag and drooling over the ads for bikes you rarely saw on every street corner. Fast forward 20 years and most people want to create the bikes in those ads as they made such a big impression on them when they were young......
Had my parents had enough money to go and buy say a Haro Master complete, I would have probably been SO stoked on it that I wouldn't of changed a single part! Let's face it, most kids BMX bikes looked like sacks of shite bitd with whatever we managed to beg/ borrow /steal with odd wheels and odd colours everywhere and while some favour the survivor look most will agree a factory catalogue look is far more aesthetically pleasing...especially if the bike is to be displayed or 'shown'. The 'scene' is more about building the bikes you could never afford as a kid.
It makes you wonder who actually owned all the bikes we have now 30 yrs ago as most of us can only recall one spoilt / rich kid who owned a fancy bike whilst everyone else was on Burners!
I think the reason a lot of pre 85 bikes end up looking a bit 'samey' is that the colour choices for parts were not that exciting before then and most decals/ graphics reflected that.....
I reckon it's only people who attend shows a lot that become a bit 'overexposed' to this stuff, personally I would get really excited if I saw someone riding a T/a down the road.....

I think you are right about over exposure for many ... ( myself included at times ) I used to spend quality time on rides looking at all the bikes but now there are so many people to catch up with that the bikes sadly have taken a back seat ... I'm determined to have a proper squint at the ones on show at Blackpool tomorrow..

I've got to say though that I still do get a buzz from a TA  ( Andy's is particularly clean and simple ( just black/chrome parts ) ... But equally a rare beast like a GJS also floats my boat as well

I felt that at MK the bikes in the fields/helipad got overlooked a wee bit too ( rain/socialising/BH are my excuses ) and I saw some crackin' builds ... Personal favourites like Pro Burners, Rippers and Quads ... Not Bike of the show winning stuff but still stuff that gets me personally excited 

[chubby]

For me it's overexposure. Think I may have even mentioned it at MK.
EVERYONE does their TA white or chrome with the usual red, white and blue colour scheme so they end up a little boring
( There I said it    )

Haros are the same, the world is overrun with masters, fst's and sports and few stray from the expected colourways. I don't know if it's a lack of individuality, wanting to fit in, wanting it to look like the magazine shots bitd or just a need to keep the resale value high? Probably a bit of all of them, but as a result we get bored and seek the exotic or unusual.

I hang my head in shame but I actually said to Rich on seeing the haro tent "ah it's just a load of stock haros"
I did have a look round in the end on the Sunday but I did find myself a little bored looking at over restored bikes. The odd survivor was a joy to behold

I guess what I'm trying to say is familiarity breed contempt

Never set foot in the place, seen one seen em all 
Suppose everyone wanted one bitd but I just don't get it 
There's tons of weird shite out there & I'm glad everyone leaves it mostly to us 

[Waxintaxin]

The flavour has changed in the 18 years I have been around the scene
You have to also remember that only a few collectors were around and therefore every build was new and exiting as you hadn't seen it before.
So how has it changed
I remember that rippers were the frame to have and they were on of the most expensive to buy although that's relative to today's prices bit 60 or 70'quid for a frame and forks was a lot
No one did a custom colour build as that's not how they came
Survivor wasn't really a thing
And you built bikes from NOS without thinking as it was plentiful
JMCS became expensive and rippers dropped off price wise and the more exotic stuff became more expensive
You built your bike a stock as possible as that's how it came bitd
Brands that were ignored were plentiful and as prices rise the cheaper bikes became more popular

[Glynnyboy]

Just a TA,,, funny you do hear that. I think a few got a shock a few month back when someone asked the question on one of the fb groups what Is your favourite. I think skyway TA came out top.
This story sums my thoughts up on TA's up to this day.
As a kid I had a super burner a buddy of mine had a tuff. His parents were well off and I remember coming up to the Christmas after getting our burners, he asked me what in my opionion the best f/f you could get was and what parts id put on it.
Well I went through the list of all I had taken in through scanning those pages of bmx action. On Christmas day there was a knock at the door and my mate was on my dream bike. He had taken the list I went through and told his dad that was what he wanted for Christmas.  
I love TA's I was looking the other day through the 1000+ in the museum and I think I saw less than 30 that could have possibly floated my boat.
After having my XL for around 5 year and been very apprehensive over chroming nightmares I took the plunge got it done and it turned out a happy ending for me. If I had to chose just one bike out of all ive built over the last 9 year it would be the one I'm building now.....Just a TA .

[Waxintaxin]

Same here Glyn
I am building a quad and I am exited to do so

[Jaymz]

EVERYONE does their TA white or chrome with the usual red, white and blue colour scheme so they end up a little boring
( There I said it    )

Haros are the same, the world is overrun with masters, fst's and sports and few stray from the expected colourways.

not me!!!

[factory pilot]

The flavour has changed in the 18 years I have been around the scene
You have to also remember that only a few collectors were around and therefore every build was new and exiting as you hadn't seen it before.
So how has it changed
I remember that rippers were the frame to have and they were on of the most expensive to buy although that's relative to today's prices bit 60 or 70'quid for a frame and forks was a lot
No one did a custom colour build as that's not how they came
Survivor wasn't really a thing
And you built bikes from NOS without thinking as it was plentiful
JMCS became expensive and rippers dropped off price wise and the more exotic stuff became more expensive
You built your bike a stock as possible as that's how it came bitd
Brands that were ignored were plentiful and as prices rise the cheaper bikes became more popular

Thanks for the insight Rich   
I guess the OS is and will always be a ever changing landscape.
I've heard stories of NOS f and F being stripped and OG decals removed back then ..
I guess it's all relative .. I guess very few could have predicted how the scene was to grow and how it would have its own rules and changing fashions based on supply and the urge to do something different ...

[kungfunky]

Been around a long time and like many others who have served 15+ years collecting have heard this saying many times "been done to death". Plenty of valid points above and when you have seen dozens of identical builds it can be harder to get a stiffy about them.  there's nothing wrong with that when your the one building them as its a new and exciting build, but it can sometimes be a case of "when you've seen one Gen1 built as a Bob rep" you've seen the all, and the same goes with any bike.

The thing that floats the  older collectors boat these days is not only their own builds but original finish builds, or something completely different which is not easy to find.

[OrgasmDonor]

Been a member on here since very early days of the original site, the very first rad meet was at Sheffield indoor, it was awesome to see the bikes you only ever saw in mag ads etc.

Thing is, bitd there were bikes shared across country and almost every kid had one or another, bikes got snapped, bent, scrapped etc.

When collecting started it was collecting for all the right reasons. No one knew that bmx could possibly be worth so much, you just bought what you liked, or more importantly, what you wanted or liked bitd.
If a ta turned up it was a big deal, se rippers were sooooo fookin rare in the early noughties that it was an event when someone found one.  It was said about 2001ish a ripper frame had sold at an art and design auction for £3000. General trends start appearing on ebay, people start asking about bikes, people realise that rusty kids bike in the shed might be worth more than scrap and it starts big time. You start seeing loads of rippers, ta's, dbs, gts, jmcs etc. Now there are more than enough bikes to go around the comparatively tiny number of collectors to number of kids with bikes bitd, that most are common

I like seeing something different, I think its only a ta, ripper, is a fair comment. mid school was similar s&m was the look for bike, now flooded.

Have to say that, although I have never owned one, that I agree with comments above, the gt pro is possibly the most under appreciated bmx of all.  Thing is a lot of collectors were not that interested bitd and have a knowledge of the market  and what's desirable, not what actually were great fookin bikes. Gts are much rarer than any other bike in their class and ridable and beautiful. TAs (never a fan) are worth more than just a ta comment because they were built well and are a pretty frame. Alloy se's were shite, hutch quality was shocking etc.  Its all down to market, trends, knowledge and I really hope personal taste, because that's when the different stuff appears that keeps this scene interesting.

[factory pilot]

I can see how the shine has gone from TAs et al for some of you ... I guess when you've been back in the scene over 10 years you've owned or seen most things .... I guess looking for rarity and originality ( nosness to use a phrase ) keeps it fresh ...

For those of us in this hobby for the right reasons - love and passion  ( and I'd say that's 90% of the people I've come across in my short time ) the constant talk of selling up ( however amusing )  of bubbles bursting is not a thing to be feared but a thing to look forward to .. Parts and frames set free so they can be built up and prices plumittung to the point where I could now build a bike for the 2017 price of 401 flights!
But ofcourse that's never going to happen either..

It's funny how things work out .. Imagine if all those Aero Reflexes were as rare as  Holeshot RF-1s or Craig Campbell's  and a warehouse of those 2 frames had been found instead .... ?

It's all relative I guess ...

I love the point someone made " .. And I still can't afford one!"
In many cases that's still true for many us ...
In many ways to have been around in the later years is a blessing of its own ... I can't just go out and build a bike a week. But that's the beauty of it all for me. I love having to save hard, to budget, to search long and hard to find that elusive part, To harass your mates for parts etc, etc
The frustration in many ways makes the end product  so much more worth while ...

[OrgasmDonor]

I can see how the shine has gone from TAs et al for some of you ... I guess when you've been back in the scene over 10 years you've owned or seen most things .... I guess looking for rarity and originality ( nosness to use a phrase ) keeps it fresh ...

For those of us in this hobby for the right reasons - love and passion  ( and I'd say that's 90% of the people I've come across in my short time ) the constant talk of selling up ( however amusing )  of bubbles bursting is not a thing to be feared but a thing to look forward to .. Parts and frames set free so they can be built up and prices plumittung to the point where I could now build a bike for the 2017 price of 401 flights!
But ofcourse that's never going to happen either..

It's funny how things work out .. Imagine if all those Aero Reflexes were as rare as  Holeshot RF-1s or Craig Campbell's  and a warehouse of those 2 frames had been found instead .... ?

It's all relative I guess ...

I love the point someone made " .. And I still can't afford one!"
In many cases that's still true for many us ...
In many ways to have been around in the later years is a blessing of its own ... I can't just go out and build a bike a week. But that's the beauty of it all for me. I love having to save hard, to budget, to search long and hard to find that elusive part, To harass your mates for parts etc, etc
The frustration in many ways makes the end product  so much more worth while ...

Bang on 

[Waxintaxin]

The first bob replica I saw blew me away
The first nos ripper I saw blew me away
I love old BMX and have owned many bikes , and sold many bikes and because of that the excitement of seeing something you have seen before is diminished
What hasn't diminished is the feeling of riding them , I still feel the same buzz riding around on an old BMX as I did when I first got on one again in the late 90s
I also have a fair bit of non bike old BMX stuff that in itself is probably more historically important than the bikes but overlooked at the moment
It's mad , plenty of nos frames were stripped because they were the wrong colour and decals removed because you didn't comprehend what was to come and nos was available easily ,so attitudes change with the rarity of the parts
I am building again , because I wanted to get back some of the bikes I had sold in the past that I regret letting go
I have three on the go a MK1 supergoose , and aero pro and a quad
So my collecting has gone full circle and I am in collecting my favourite bikes of any make , I will continue to do so and am enjoying it just as much as first time with a real certainty of what collecting means to me and to replace the gaps in my collection
It's rad as fook

[McQUEEN]

"its only a t/a" must of come from someone who's got bikes they consider better or more exotic/rare. If you have a t/a and see a burner......

Have you guys seen this thread - http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,188313.msg1892471.html#msg1892471

I've referenced it for two reasons - one, it shows that there's still a lot of inspiration for newer builders out there (whether its stock or otherwise) and two, it shows that there's also still lots of builders aspirational to build bikes to show.  I also really liked this thread because of Jamyz comments on his 'evolution theory' which I really agree with. I find the 'show and shine' a difficult concept to deal with in part.

""Quote from: Jaymz on September 07, 2016, 10:45 AM
I build my bikes around an evolution theory, which gives me a 4 year window around a frame date. Which as a kid If i got a new frame i wouldve used parts from my old frame, therefore theyre earlier and then upgraded after the fact so for an 84 frameset, 82 - 86 parts are fine, and it gives a bike a real look of bitd. It can go horribly wrong, Ive built a couple of complete shitters that in theory worked but looked like wank. But if you get it right they can look mental. I was stopped at MK on more than one occassion to ask if my freestyler was a survivor, thats the biggest compliment I had all weekend""

""Quote from: McQueen on September 07, 2016, 04:18 PM
spot on approach in my mind. I do love a show pony and most of mine are built that way, because now I can afford (within reason, there alot deeper pockets out there) what I couldn't then and I can build what I dreamt about in 84/85. I don't think other than when i got my fist pro star to when i built mt gt pro performer did I have matching tyres!!""

At the moment I'm losing the love for technically overbuilt bikes - who ever remembers a bike bitd with dc grey end caps on their brake spindles?! I'm in the process of building a Trix at the moment and whilst it looks pretty good for me, right now its lacking a 'patina' - it doesn't look 'old' or from 1985. I'm in the process of deciding whether to install an ACS rotor - looks great, era correct, but the bike would never of stopped without a coaster, so I wouldn't of ridden it. I've started adding manufacturers stickers on my builds as well as they look more ridden, or 'owned'.

What I'm saying is that I'm beginning to think builds should look like its been ridden, has a past / history, and I am wondering if that's the way/fashion for building might go. The Haro Sport / Wilkerson rider that Deeman built earlier this year was an excellent, well executed build, but for me it didn't look like a rider rep because everything looked brand new and I could never of believed Ron W ever swung his leg over it. BTW, this is in no way a criticism, Deeman's bike was ace, 10/10, A++, and in my opinion of should have won that months botm because of the hard work and research he put into it.

I have a cherry red GT Pro Performer, Eddie Fiola rep build, and may favourite part of the build is the silver showing through the worn out anodising of the gold dx pedals. When did you last see a build with the metal on the headtube showing where the rear brake cable had rubbed against it for a year or two?? I can't remember who's build it was, I think it was one of KingFunkys, but someone did a SE bike with the rear rim anodising worn off - the front, without a brake, was still there and the bike looked ridden.

But I'm not talking rat bikes or survivours - I'm thinking building with a patina to look ridden.

[MartyC]

But I'm not talking rat bikes or survivors - I'm thinking building with a patina to look ridden.

So are you saying you are going to build and ride or build to look like it's been ridden?

Seems a bit odd to me but it's whatever floats your boat!