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RADBMX.CO.UK  |  Mid School BMX (>87) 1989 to 2003 (<05)  |  Mid School ( Keep the faith )  |  1990 Kuwahara XL Race bike Prototype
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Author Topic: 1990 Kuwahara XL Race bike Prototype  (Read 5280 times)

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Offline Dark Diggler

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Re: 1990 Kuwahara XL Race bike Prototype
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2015, 06:50 PM »
Sorry but I can't see how that was made by Tange, particularly with that serial no, the bb shell, headtube and not forgetting the identical double dropouts to a Holmes/dirtbike which is slightly weird for a lightweight race specific frame........
Some better pics of the brake bridge here too, along with another frame owner who badged theirs up as suntour.

http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=630413&p=1

I'm not suggesting Kuwahara didn't commission this but I am saying its identical to a dirtbike or a Holmes and it's deffo a B&E frame.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 07:02 PM by Dark Diggler »
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Offline Dannywhac

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Re: 1990 Kuwahara XL Race bike Prototype
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2015, 08:10 PM »
Quote from: Dark Diggler on February 12, 2015, 06:50 PM
I'm not suggesting Kuwahara didn't commission this but I am saying its identical to a dirtbike or a Holmes and it's deffo a B&E frame.

Agreed again - there's a couple of minor differences (as in the chain-stay bridge is a little further back, the heattube is reversed) but I'll bet my left nadger that the frame was built on the same jig as the Holmes, Dirt Bike and the early Homless Mack frames. Looking at the forks in that Museum thread n'all, they're reasonably close to Pitch Forks...

Anyhow - it's an ace frame, thought I'd do a couple of comparison pics. They won't be identical as it's a Platform Dirt Bike frame so it's got a coaster tab and no gusset up front and I can't be arsed to get my DB down from the loft. But it's B&E made:

Your Kuwie Drops:

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

B&E made Dirt Bike Drops (ignore coaster tab and slight flaring to drops due to use):

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Your Kuwie Bottom Bracket:

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

B&E DB Bottom Bracket:

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Offline Dannywhac

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Re: 1990 Kuwahara XL Race bike Prototype
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2015, 08:13 PM »
And your head tube:

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

B&E Head tube:

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Offline meisterjim

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Re: 1990 Kuwahara XL Race bike Prototype
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2015, 09:26 AM »


The problem is there are more differents, on the last pic you can see the hole, its for the cable for the v brake. my frame dont have v brake, its true there are similarity, but does not mean anything :)






Quote from: Dannywhac on February 12, 2015, 08:10 PM
Quote from: Dark Diggler on February 12, 2015, 06:50 PM
I'm not suggesting Kuwahara didn't commission this but I am saying its identical to a dirtbike or a Holmes and it's deffo a B&E frame.

Agreed again - there's a couple of minor differences (as in the chain-stay bridge is a little further back, the heattube is reversed) but I'll bet my left nadger that the frame was built on the same jig as the Holmes, Dirt Bike and the early Homless Mack frames. Looking at the forks in that Museum thread n'all, they're reasonably close to Pitch Forks...

Anyhow - it's an ace frame, thought I'd do a couple of comparison pics. They won't be identical as it's a Platform Dirt Bike frame so it's got a coaster tab and no gusset up front and I can't be arsed to get my DB down from the loft. But it's B&E made:

Your Kuwie Drops:

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

B&E made Dirt Bike Drops (ignore coaster tab and slight flaring to drops due to use):

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Your Kuwie Bottom Bracket:

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

B&E DB Bottom Bracket:

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Offline ED209

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Re: 1990 Kuwahara XL Race bike Prototype
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2015, 10:10 AM »
 :popcorn:
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Offline CustardLips

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Re: 1990 Kuwahara XL Race bike Prototype
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2015, 10:54 AM »
 :popcorn:  Think I'll pull up a chair.  :LolLolLolLol:
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Offline kev-s

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Re: 1990 Kuwahara XL Race bike Prototype
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2015, 11:24 AM »
Were not saying its exactly the same as the other pictured, were trying to show you it is very similar in many ways

gotta be a B&E made frame, shares to many characteristics of the other frames they made for companies like s&m, homeless etc...

If it is tange made for Kuwahara then they must of had a homeless or s&m frame to hand and said make it like this!
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Offline pickle

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Re: 1990 Kuwahara XL Race bike Prototype
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2015, 12:45 PM »
Love stuff like this, you guys know your stuff and i'd definitely take on board what they're saying.   

Danny, looking at your breakdown of companies B&E made for they must've made the Hyper Metro then?  I always thought mine looked like an S&M in places, also a Limo as well
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Offline ED209

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Re: 1990 Kuwahara XL Race bike Prototype
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2015, 02:15 PM »
Nick CustardLips pm'd me to say you are all talking shite 'cause its a Burner  ::)

he nose his shite does Kusturdtits  :daumenhoch:
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Offline CustardLips

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Re: 1990 Kuwahara XL Race bike Prototype
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2015, 06:49 PM »
Quote from: ED209 on February 19, 2015, 02:15 PM
Nick CustardLips pm'd me to say you are all talking shite 'cause its a Burner  ::)

he nose his shite does Kusturdtits  :daumenhoch:
Ed you :bellend:

What i said was... you talk shite and you'd look cool on a Burner.  :daumenhoch:

So get your fookin facts right.  :LolLolLolLol:

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Offline Dannywhac

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Re: 1990 Kuwahara XL Race bike Prototype
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2015, 07:09 PM »
Quote from: meisterjim on February 19, 2015, 09:26 AM

The problem is there are more differents, on the last pic you can see the hole, its for the cable for the v brake. my frame dont have v brake, its true there are similarity, but does not mean anything :)


MJ - I can show you a B&E made S&M without AD lugs (so no cable guide) from the same period as your frame - if anyone's got a lugless Holmes from 1991 - 1993 it'll look identical to your frame. Being made by B&E isn't a bad thing - that frame is ace, and great it's come to light. I am 100% sure it wasn't made by Tange but B&E.

Your other Proto H frame also I think is made by B&E - this one:

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

If you look at the BB again etc it's B&E - but check the odd shaped seat-stay brake bridge and compare it to a B&E made 'Murray Stay' Holmes:

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

And check the other Hajo's frame the same as yours - the chain stay bridge is also identical to the B&E made Murray Holmes:

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Quote from: pickle on February 19, 2015, 12:45 PM
Danny, looking at your breakdown of companies B&E made for they must've made the Hyper Metro then?  I always thought mine looked like an S&M in places, also a Limo as well

Yeah Rob, they made the Metro  :daumenhoch: There's a load of similarities with the Free Agents as well, but I'm not sure (as I've never owned one to look at it closely) if B&E made em. Possibility though as they made a crap load of frames for other companies back then - even ones with in house manufacture.

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Offline ED209

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Re: 1990 Kuwahara XL Race bike Prototype
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2015, 07:39 PM »
Quote from: CustardLips on February 19, 2015, 06:49 PM
Quote from: ED209 on February 19, 2015, 02:15 PM
Nick CustardLips pm'd me to say you are all talking shite 'cause its a Burner  ::)

he nose his shite does Kusturdtits  :daumenhoch:
Ed you :bellend:

What i said was... you talk shite and you'd look cool on a Burner.  :daumenhoch:

So get your fookin facts right.  :LolLolLolLol:

pmsl  ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Offline fischflo

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Re: 1990 Kuwahara XL Race bike Prototype
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2015, 08:43 PM »
Guess it's not a bad thing, if it were built on the same jig as early S&Ms, I wouldn't mind these facts, but investigate them further :daumenhoch: - very impressive, guys, good stuff. :bow:
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