Author Topic: First attempt at wheel building.....help as I go. (Read 1778 times)

EDBANGER · « **on:** May 20, 2014, 08:27 PM »

I fancied giving this a go as I traded some forks for a set of wheels but the hubs weren't great. I managed to pick up NOS Odyssey Profactor sealed bearing hubs for £30. As this is the first time I've ever attempted this I think I'm gonna need some help and advice.

So far I've taken the spokes out of the rear wheel and measured the distance between opposite spoke holes on the flange which is 67mm. My head is now spinning. The wheels were originally x3 laced but I was going to x4 lace them. In laymens terms (and I do mean real idiot terms here), how do I figure out which length spokes I need for the job. I'm pretty sure they'll need to be longer than the one that I took off?? What's confusing me is the ones I took off were approx 174mm to the bend (are the lengths to the bend or from end to end?). When I'm looking on ebay though most spokes start at 180mm.

Chapperz · « **Reply #1 on:** May 20, 2014, 08:57 PM »

Spoke lengths to the inside of the bend. There is a good calculator in the tech and restoration stickies by stidds. It's spot on

hokuspokus74 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 20, 2014, 09:41 PM »

Ah Ed you dont know what you have let yourself in for

can be a fooking nightmare,then you got to tru them hmmmmm i got one set bang on but another set i just cant sort it,plus ive loads off 184-186mm spokes to use and not sure what cross and all the other jargon is to get to use these $:-\$

EDBANGER · « **Reply #3 on:** May 20, 2014, 10:16 PM »

As I was undoing the first spoke I was think "maybe this isn't a good idea??". I'm up for the challenge though

Right then, I'll need to have a look at Mr Stidds's sticky then.

EDBANGER · « **Reply #4 on:** May 20, 2014, 10:32 PM »

The Stidds sticky is perfect. I'd seen guides trying to explain that with harsh looking mathematical equations and my brain just went into panic mode and melted. Stidd's guide had nice pictures

So according to the calculations the spoke length that I need is 179mm. As I said before they all seem to start at 180mm. Will that extra mm make any difference?

hokuspokus74 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 20, 2014, 10:40 PM »

na no harm in that extra mm mate did ya get that pm i sent ya

EDBANGER · « **Reply #6 on:** May 20, 2014, 10:54 PM »

Quote from: hokuspokus74 on May 20, 2014, 10:40 PM

na no harm in that extra mm mate did ya get that pm i sent ya

Just read it. Seems straight forward stuff

EDBANGER · « **Reply #7 on:** May 22, 2014, 01:33 PM »

Right then. Just finished putting the spokes into the first wheel and I think I may have got it right?? Can someone just confirm this for me? Was relatively straight forward and I quite enjoyed it

hokuspokus74 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 22, 2014, 03:58 PM »

No its all wrong you need to restart it all over again

i think it looks ok am sending you 6 sets to do for me :p now you need to tru it

EDBANGER · « **Reply #9 on:** May 23, 2014, 09:41 AM »

Haha to be honest it didn't even take me that long to get them in. Granted the wheel isn't quite straight at the moment but I've got somebody making me a bespoke truing tool that will hopefully make that task a little easier

I'll let you know how that goes when I get it.

stidds · « **Reply #10 on:** May 23, 2014, 09:53 AM »

Quote from: EDBANGER on May 20, 2014, 10:32 PM

The Stidds sticky is perfect. I'd seen guides trying to explain that with harsh looking mathematical equations and my brain just went into panic mode and melted. Stidd's guide had nice pictures

So according to the calculations the spoke length that I need is 179mm. As I said before they all seem to start at 180mm. Will that extra mm make any difference?

Well thank you for the kind comment. I am really glad it helped.

EDBANGER · « **Reply #11 on:** May 23, 2014, 10:11 AM »

It certainly did. I went about my shit with an air of knowing what I was doing

Does the lacing look right to you?

hokuspokus74 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 23, 2014, 04:22 PM »

I wouldnt mindmaking my own truing stand etc,might just look into it coz it aint great using the forks

oldtired · « **Reply #13 on:** May 23, 2014, 06:29 PM »

old Akisu forks ,busted guard of the bench grinder(up n down true) nuts n bolts (left and right true) , bit o griding for the freewheel / cassette, and for 14mm axles

result :- nice straight wheels every time , after a bit of practice

what i would suggest is buy a quality spoke key worth the few quids to get one the correct size

Park Tools Truing stand over Â£100, home made..... nowt, although i did knock me bru over and set fire to me vans with the sparks of the grinder

fookin brill getting a wheel trued up, very therapeutic

now bolted to a tripod stand for indoor winter wheel fiddling

great thing about bmx wheels is they sit central over the hub so no need to dish the back wheel, get the initial tension on the spokes even and the rest is easy

a couple of these with different amounts of thread may help, gets the spokes all at the same tension and will make the rest of the truing easy , thread one into the nip and turn until the nip stops

hokuspokus74 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 23, 2014, 07:36 PM »

hey oldtired great piece of engineering there

hats off too ya

oldtired · « **Reply #15 on:** May 23, 2014, 10:31 PM »

i think "engineering " is far from an accurate description , but appreciate it

can't take credit for the spokey do dah's was someone on here but can't remember who sorry

Spen69 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 24, 2014, 08:42 AM »

Jim is that home made

It's difficult to tell

Love a bit of bodgeneering and that is ace mate

As for wheel building, it's actually not too difficult but truing up still defeats me so my LBS does the tricky final bit and tensions the fook out of them for me at a fiver a wheel as I ride all my wheels and am not kind to them

Wheel looks fine bt the way - well done

john4130 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 24, 2014, 12:05 PM »

the spokey do dah's was my idea, makes tensioning the wheel a piece o piss.

oldtired · « **Reply #18 on:** May 24, 2014, 05:42 PM »

credit where it due

sorry for snaking the thread Si, it tends to happen on here

hope at least some of its useful to you

snoopy72 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 24, 2014, 06:43 PM »

nice idea with the mini coat hangers

oldtired · « **Reply #20 on:** May 24, 2014, 06:56 PM »

as this is the Tech section you should use the correct terminology , that being " Spokey Do Dah "

EDBANGER · « **Reply #21 on:** May 26, 2014, 05:32 PM »

Quote from: oldtired on May 24, 2014, 05:42 PM

credit where it due

sorry for snaking the thread Si, it tends to happen on here hope at least some of its useful to you

Haha no worries. there. It's nice that someone is actually reading my ramblings. Just finished the front wheel lacing now and I didn't even need to use the guide

. Need to tighten up the spokes and then tru them. I have Steve making me some truing devices so we'll see how well I take to that when I pick them up.

EDBANGER · « **Reply #22 on:** May 26, 2014, 06:56 PM »

OK, how do other people go about tightening the spokes once the wheel is laced. I started by putting the nipples on and giving each one 4 full turns each. Once all the spokes are in I'm now going around the rim adding one turn to each nipple. It's taking bloody ages and I'm getting bored now. There's got to be a better method than this???

snoopy72 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 26, 2014, 06:57 PM »

I enjoyed the lacing bit

a pish of pish

snoopy72 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 26, 2014, 07:16 PM »

always Start from the valve hole, tighten all the spokes so you can just see the thread, but only if it lets you, dont overtighten, if you start getting cracking sounds it too tight and your spokes are too short.
then starting again from the valve hole turn each one 1/4 of a turn until the hole wheel nips up, tap the spokes with a hammer (only a tap) I used a rubber sand filled hammer,close to the eye's the spokes that are bending over the hub 36 spokes (9 each side)ONLY tap these 9 spokes per side ONCE, it's to get them close to the hub.
look at the wheel side view and straight any spokes that don't look straight and press lightly each cross over to bend in slightly,
If all the nipples are screwed in the same this is a good base line, the up and down of the wheel should be good but may need tweaking, you must adjust up and down first before left and right truing .truing the wheel up and down is opposite to adjusting the spokes for left and right.
When your happy with the truing grab the spokes where they cross over and give them a squeeze then re check, this takes the stress out of the spokes, if you don't do this when you start riding the wheel will go out of tru and the odd loose spoke will appear
the rim if it has a join may have a discrepancy on the join or at the valve hole, ignore this and tru it up in betwween this point, some rims are impossible to get perfect, you can only tru it up as good as the rim.
The rest is best to read the Sheldon Brown article (it's a long read) when you have finished , a 20" rim should have a E pitch to the spokes when you twang them, do this last because if you have a slightly loose or tight spokes these can be adjusted with very small amounts of turn (not even a 1/4) to get the pitch the same from all the spokes.
low pitch is loose and a higher pitch it too tight. listen to an E string on You Tube (not G-string)

and your getting bored now, wait until 4 hours later and your still truing it

make sure you grease the threads of the spokes with anti seize compound