Mid School dates debate Vote off

[stidds]

Do you understand the option decades above means no more vintage, old school, mid school or new school the site will be totally reorganised and those terms won't be used again?

WHy not?

70's - vintage
80's - old school
90's - mid school
2000's - new school
2010+ - current

its really not that big a deal.

Exactly, people can actually call things whatever and whoever they like, what we would simply be doing is moving some dates around.

[fischflo]

that's what i thought too at some point

but it's too harsh approximation - it's the observation of actual riders that convinced me

the terms have meaning ....... and the dates do too

[Dannywhac]

Do you understand the option decades above means no more vintage, old school, mid school or new school the site will be totally reorganised and those terms won't be used again?

WHy not?

70's - vintage
80's - old school
90's - mid school
2000's - new school
2010+ - current

its really not that big a deal.

Because Jon - that won't be true, what it will equal is:

70's
80's
90's
2000's
2010+

There will be no more 'Schools' - a 1989 Dirt Bike will be an 80's bike, your (exactly the same) 1990 Dirt Bike will be a 90's bike. Not Old or Mid. You lose the (imho) the meaning behind what was going on and just change it into a metric way of listing stuff.

[fischflo]

Exactly, we just don't want to lose the meaning behind those terms. It's about cultivating history

[midschooljon]

that's what i thought too at some point

but it's too harsh approximation - it's the observation of actual riders that convinced me

the terms have meaning ....... and the dates do too

The problem is that everyone likes to say its about "Eras", "attitude" and the "mindset" of riders that defines the schools. Then when you ask them to put dates to that they rattle on about BB's, 990's, and micro drive.   

If you cant define the atttude change in BMX with fixed dates or events its isn't worth mentioning. Similarly, if you going to use tech to justify eras we need to clarify what tech had the biggest impact. Its commonly accepted that threadless headsets were one of the biggest technical advances in BMX, but no one wants to use it as a start finish of an era? Why? Because it comes right in the middle of their bike collection, and they want the whole thing to be mid school. 

The thinking is flawed and the lines are blurred. I will be the first to admit that. Define it by decades (like every other industry) and lets just crack on with building bikes. 

[OrgasmDonor]

Do you understand the option decades above means no more vintage, old school, mid school or new school the site will be totally reorganised and those terms won't be used again?

WHy not?

70's - vintage
80's - old school
90's - mid school
2000's - new school
2010+ - current

its really not that big a deal.

Couldnt look more sensible

[fischflo]

people who witnessed change are capable of putting dates on when certain develpoments became common = mainstream
->http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,171969.msg1727360.html#msg1727360 

but fair point you made

[rodriguez]

I don't understand this 2 years either way.
2 year of flexibility to accommodate exceptions what a fookin load of bollocks

It's either mid school or not NO exceptions

I get where you're coming from G, but re-reading and taking in some of the input in the debate thread it makes sense (and the thread changed my opinion by the end of it). You can't lump a Mad Dog or mid style Revcore in the same section as say for instance a stock FST or Streetbeat (not that I'm saying they're stock bikes because we all build em different ) from the same years.

We put a name to eras in essence to define a way of thinking/tech (if that doesn't sound too up it's own 'arris) that cropped up for that era of BMX. The way we list stuff has to have a 'numeric/periodic value' if you like in order to list it, and in order to preserve that (and the eras) in my changed opinion the above poll covers all bases.

I think the above gives everyone a good scale that preserves Vintage/Old/Mid/New and the community in the separate sections on the site that has run well for years. Adding to that it gives the option for the sections to be divided into decades.

Whatever is decided in the poll, I reckon the RAD result will be seen as a way to define stuff for BMX forums/S&S etc for a while to come 

Fook me that was waffley - and I'm stone cold sober this time round 

Dan I have a 03 S&M Neal wood but would class that as new school not mid school

Also how could you say an 87 CW to be classed as mid school   

Did you not read the points made in the thread about how these things would be handled?

Did you not read read where it says 2 years flexibility either way

Vintage, old school & new school don't have it so why should mid school be any different

That point was made and addressed in the thread, why didn't you contribute to the thread?

The short answer is there were bikes built in the same year that fit into different schools as Danny has shown above.

Do you understand the option decades above means no more vintage, old school, mid school or new school the site will be totally reorganised and those terms won't be used again?

Hey rodders if you go to page 1 and mine is the 3rd comment.

Also I understand the options that's why I've voted for decades

You're right you commented you hardly argued your point like you have in this thread.

Cool 

Do you understand the option decades above means no more vintage, old school, mid school or new school the site will be totally reorganised and those terms won't be used again?

I have always fooking hated the "school" bit, especially new school, that's just shit.

Mightn't annoy you for much longer.

Maybe it's the future.

[GavinDavis]

Will it mean that Jon has to have a new username it the decades win?

I like midschooljon.........90'sjon doesnt have the same ring to it 

[rodriguez]

Do you understand the option decades above means no more vintage, old school, mid school or new school the site will be totally reorganised and those terms won't be used again?

WHy not?

70's - vintage
80's - old school
90's - mid school
2000's - new school
2010+ - current

its really not that big a deal.

Well I think it is because it' not right, mid-school began in the late 1980's and ended in the early 2000's, either schools or decades not a fudge of both.

I can understand some people don't like the whole schools thing but to fudge them together is a horrendous idea.

[gary4130]

Do you understand the option decades above means no more vintage, old school, mid school or new school the site will be totally reorganised and those terms won't be used again?

WHy not?

70's - vintage
80's - old school
90's - mid school
2000's - new school
2010+ - current

its really not that big a deal.

agree with you '90s john 

[Dannywhac]

If you cant define the atttude change in BMX with fixed dates or events its isn't worth mentioning. Similarly, if you going to use tech to justify eras we need to clarify what tech had the biggest impact. Its commonly accepted that threadless headsets were one of the biggest technical advances in BMX, but no one wants to use it as a start finish of an era? Why? Because it comes right in the middle of their bike collection, and they want the whole thing to be mid school. 

But that's what the debate thread has done - it's argued the definition of a development of a change in the overall way that BMX was being owned/run/freestyle changed  by date.

It's not down to a single 'tech' change that adds up to one of the 'Schools' and it really does have looking through the debate thread have nothing to do with someones collection - re-read through all 10 odd pages of the thread and it's a load of people inputting what they think and being talked around to changing their opinions on dates in order to come up with a workable solution for a site. 1 1/8" was a revelation, but it didn't change a style of riding - all it did was stop people eternally having to re-tighten their 1"ers  and put their bars into line 

The thinking is flawed and the lines are blurred. I will be the first to admit that. Define it by decades (like every other industry) and lets just crack on with building bikes. 

 I started off thinking that the decade thing was a good idea, but it (imho) would make the site a bit less personal and more like Bikepedia. Have a look through the whole old Mid section of the site and see the stories that have been shared about the mid period in BMX and see how out of context they'd be if you separated them into decades.

[fischflo]

...still was a good debate.
And i pull my hat to rad, that allows for this, and to those, who say what they believe is right

[OrgasmDonor]

People still call vacuum cleaners 'Hoovers.' etc etc, people will still call bikes by the school they thinkk its from, so the terms will always be used, but some will be wrong by a couple of years

[ED209]

I think that sums it up Daz.

I've been struggling to know whats best to vote for, or even if either is right ... but reading the debate here if we go for Decades you can have an 80s Mid School bike ... like the S&M ... or a 90s Old School bike like the Haro Sport ( bashguard or not ) ... you can use 'schools' to define your own bike as and when you see fit ... and argue the case if someone disagrees.

[fischflo]

.....but the point is .........if these terms make sense ........why not acknowledge them with sensible periods?

[Dannywhac]

I think that sums it up Daz.

I've been struggling to know whats best to vote for, or even if either is right ... but reading the debate here if we go for Decades you can have an 80s Mid School bike ... like the S&M ... or a 90s Old School bike like the Haro Sport ( bashguard or not ) ... you can use 'schools' to define your own bike as and when you see fit ... and argue the case if someone disagrees.

Ahhhhhh.......chuff!

Now I'm struggling from thinking decade to school and back to decade again 

Reason being.....wasn't the subtitle on the Mid Section 'It's all about the 90's' a while back?

Aaaaargghhhhh 

[OrgasmDonor]

.....but the point is .........if these terms make sense ........why not acknowledge them with sensible periods?

Because, as is woefully evident, the periods can not accurately be defined, dates can

[ED209]

Do you understand the option decades above means no more vintage, old school, mid school or new school the site will be totally reorganised and those terms won't be used again?

WHy not?

70's - vintage
80's - old school
90's - mid school
2000's - new school
2010+ - current

its really not that big a deal.

Well I think it is because it' not right, mid-school began in the late 1980's and ended in the early 2000's, either schools or decades not a fudge of both.

I can understand some people don't like the whole schools thing but to fudge them together is a horrendous idea.

If we just attach schools to decades then nothing has been achieved IMO... its too simplistic a resolution and will kick off the discontent all over again ....

I was going to vote 'Decades' but now I'm not sure if schools will be attached.

[fischflo]

.....but the point is .........if these terms make sense ........why not acknowledge them with sensible periods?

Because, as is woefully evident, the periods can not accurately be defined, dates can

blääääh

[OrgasmDonor]

.....but the point is .........if these terms make sense ........why not acknowledge them with sensible periods?

Because, as is woefully evident, the periods can not accurately be defined, dates can

blääääh

Exquisite

[fischflo]

  ...hrmph

well, whatever happens, i vote for Danny and Rod being instated (wd?) to the mid  .....yeah i know....90's section as mods

 

[rodriguez]

.....but the point is .........if these terms make sense ........why not acknowledge them with sensible periods?

Because, as is woefully evident, the periods can not accurately be defined, dates can

.......with no schools attached   

Attach schools and it's bollox again and back to square one, for example, mid school equals the 90's is just wrong as was proved in the debate thread.

NOBODY who said that mid school = 90s was able to argue successfully WHY this was so in the debate thread, a few people made statements that mid school = 90's because that's what they thought/felt it was but that's it.

If anybody wants to put forward any arguments now why mid school = 90s go for it, I'd be interested to see them.

Decades = 70s 80s 90s 00s 10s

[stidds]

Guys

We all know that this is an emotive and important issue, so Ed has added a remove vote option to the poll above, just in case you need/want to change your mind.

As you can all see there is no secrecy, the poll results are visable you as soon as you have voted. 

This way nobody can say it wasn't all above board when the final decisions are made.

[ED209]

I don't understand this 2 years either way.
2 year of flexibility to accommodate exceptions what a fookin load of bollocks

It's either mid school or not NO exceptions

This came out through discussion in the other thread so I'd defend it as not 'bollocks' 

The 'Mid School' era would be firmly defined as 1989 to 2003 ... BUT with the option for those with bikes from the 2 years before and after these dates to include them if they felt it was appropriate. This decision was reached through discussion as a good way to resolve current issues.