Midschool date, year, era, decade etc. I need your input

[Miley]

So much better now! Cheers Sean, late 80's mid school era ftw!

[fischflo]

rod, i don't get why it would be ruined.....
You said
"Old school didn't stop in 86,"golden age" of BMX finished in the UK around 86 but old school carried on, I'm 44 this year it stopped for me around 86/87, my brother is 40 it stopped for him around 89/90."
...so it can't really be the change that those '87-'89 bikes that would in future be counted into an OS section, that would ruin it for you...? .....or is it more those '00-02 bikes that would be 'NS' in the future that would ruin it? OK, that would be 3 years missing, 3 years of bikes that in your account should continuously be counted into MS..?

I don't think the whole section will be reorganised, rather only the dates in the header changed, so that the final difference would be for you that those 3 years would have to looked for in another folder........ hey, cmon

But i don't know - maybe that cost of having consistent cats (MK with the rad sections) really is too high regarding the end date of MS that we have at present (2001)/ or that you suggested ('03/04).
If radbmx finds that 2001 or 2004 bikes should really be Mid School, then we would have one category with a (relatively) bigger number of entrants. I dunno .... sowhat?

THe point i'm tryin to make is that your suggestion of NS start-date (2004) doesn't have to be dismissed only cause it's hard to find a fool proof technical reason for setting MS to 1989. ...... Its a question of elaborating those reasons and then of weighing them.

[Dannywhac]

Without sounding like a crawly bumlick I appreciate the job every bugger does on here - more so that there's a site to post on and run in an unbiased way and in general with a good sense of humour 

Pleeeeeeeease el-Stid-a-dor don't go for option 2 

[midschooljon]

To be honest at this rate I will be doing one of two things with the midschool section... 1) keep it as it is and delete any mention of date and era in the future with no notice or apology or 2) delete the whole section and call everything old school.

At present I am leaning toward option 2.

Crikey, If you think us mid schoolers are a bunch of moaners, wait until a bunch of "90's tat" is dumped into the old school section.  Then you will see a proper uproar. 

Just to throw my few pennies into the debate (because you all know I love to). If we use technology to determine eras, and Bash guards are a big enough innovation to usher in a new era (mid school from old school), how is it that threadless headsets (arguably the biggest innovation since 3pc cranks before it) doesn't issue in the start of another era as well (for example new school)? Thats a genuine question by the way haha. What innovation is big enough to warrant a era change?

[GavinDavis]

New school can clearly be defined by frames all looking the same  .....although I do love new school 

The only real differences between new school stuff are minute angle differences and a lack of imagination for eye candy.  Mid school would definitely be defined at the start by the innovative bashguards that brought in new riding styles.  But then there was the 1st gen Havok sprocket pockets that were mounted on Skyway TA's by Dirt Bro's.....what year was that?

[rodriguez]

rod, i don't get why it would be ruined.....
You said
"Old school didn't stop in 86,"golden age" of BMX finished in the UK around 86 but old school carried on, I'm 44 this year it stopped for me around 86/87, my brother is 40 it stopped for him around 89/90."
...so it can't really be the change that those '87-'89 bikes that would in future be counted into an OS section, that would ruin it for you...? .....or is it more those '00-02 bikes that would be 'NS' in the future that would ruin it? OK, that would be 3 years missing, 3 years of bikes that in your account should continuously be counted into MS..?

I don't think the whole section will be reorganised, rather only the dates in the header changed, so that the final difference would be for you that those 3 years would have to looked for in another folder........ hey, cmon

Flo

At the moment there are bikes in the MS section that are anywhere from 87 to 04, anyone that uses the section doesn't seem to mind as they know why they are in there, an 88 dirt bike is mid school an 88 master is old school, move the year back to 87 and S&M becomes old school.

Once the section has been allocated specific years it will be moderated and posts that don't fit the year criteria will be moved out and other bikes that meet the year criteria will be moved in although they don't fit mid school (depending on your opinion of course).

[Dark Diggler]

So is 93' the start of new school? This was when the 1st 1 1/8 bmx from Standard was born??

By the way Sean, I think mid school and for that matter new school, old school and vintage....er...school are daft terminologies, the date the bikes were sold is the reference pont for me.

[fischflo]

Rod, but before you opted more for a 90ish MS starting date..... Or was that only for the S&S....?

If its only the finding of one's bike .......i'm not sure if the mods will be arsed to reallocate all past entries anyway...... then it surely wouldn't be THE problem you would be concerned about. Your problem was rather having cats that don't make sense, right?

I argued above that you may be right about the MS ending 2003/2004.

[rodriguez]

Rod, but before you opted more for a 90ish MS starting date..... Or was that only for the S&S....?

If its only the finding of one's bike .......i'm not sure if the mods will be arsed to reallocate all past entries anyway...... then it surely wouldn't be THE problem.

That was just an example Flo, I'm only in favour of years where worthy exceptions are allowed, so I'd say 1990 but would include S&M as a rider owned company in the MS section.

[fischflo]

i'was going to say that anyway - obvious exceptions should/could be made .......

But still we have to 'vote' about the MS exception as a whole ........that it would be a longer period than the other cats.
I'm to dumb to know the reasons for when MS should end and NS should start.

...meaning perhaps the innovation-based reasons could hold in THIS case

Rod:
"04ish="US BB phased out, freewheels phased out in favour of cassette and introdution of micro gearing, 48h to 36h, movement towards light and strong as opposed to heavy and strong."

[Dannywhac]

I dunno, but I think the major problem is trying to quantify something that can't be necessarily quantified precisely by a date range. Like the ol'Digg's saying he goes on the date when a bike/component is made for a reference point. The term mid-school or any school for that matter is sorta defined in essence by the person using the term, so for one person a Mad Dog from '88 would fall into their version of Old School - as the frame itself has a very old school geo feel to it but the buggers got double thick dropouts and a slightly altered headtube angle, whereas to another it'd be the definition of a mid school ride because of those reasons.

We've got the same problem in archaeology, where we use material culture to slot a site into a pre-defined era (like Mesolithic, Neolithic, Bronze Age, Iron Age and so on) and use defined dates to mark these eras - but it differs from site to site (and where in the world you are) as to what period the site will eventually fall into. In the end we (in most cases) just use a date to define the site rather than a set period, as say for instance you'll get transition features appearing in an early Bronze Age site that are definitely late Neolithic, and some people will throw a wobbler if you call it Neolithic and others will throw a paddy if you call it Bronze Age.

A similar example to this here is the Roman period on the mainland UK - you'll see in books it says: started 43AD ended in 410AD - but when it comes down to it and you dig a site you can find that a site looks Roman forty odd years before 43AD (mainly in Kent the turncoat toga wearing, grape eating barstewards) or doesn't look Roman by 400AD.

What I'm trying to say is I think splitting the sections into decade is a great idea as what we do here in essence is make things into 'lists' of a sort. But (and it's a MASSIVE but) on the other hand though you'll also end up loosing what makes the sections of this site ace - which is the way people perceive the differing sections - Vintage, Old, Mid and New are all defined by the people who use em and the way they see those particular 'periods' of the site, whether it be hacking round with your mates on a bike that was great for a 6-14 year old, trying to pull stuff on a crappy quarter pipe in your posh mates back garden, launching yourself at a concrete bowl made by people wearing flares, digging jumps in a wood outside of town or trying to find good lines on the stairwell and ledge outside your local town hall.

So in summary after all that fooking beer driven drivel I've just written - maybe just fook off the date range for each section and let peoples perception (which is pretty damn good) of what they define as Vintage, Old, Mid and New define where they post and enter bikes into what category.

I'll shut up now and probably in the cold sober light of day tomorrow realise what I've written is a load of shit 

[OrgasmDonor]

any one not familiar with mid bikes would assume they are all street/freestyle bikes from the comments made so far, anyway, watch joe kidd on a stingray and make a best guess at year mid started from the tone and music change, mid must have started when the big money comps/races dried up and that fat dude was rolling down the street on his back wheel sitting on his headtube. what ever year that was take a year n a half off and that's when midschool started (must've took him 18 months to dial that in  )

midschool SORTED 

 

[bobbbbsy]

i ve had a 2002 bike with 1 inch threaded and a 2009 bike with usa size bb .. i dont think you can use either to define totally .. i would say canti brakes for race bikes was a better definition ..

[Gary72]

Can I suggest a vote off.
Have one vote off for the start year. I suggest the years 88,89,90
Have another vote off for the finish year. I suggest the years 2002, 2003, 2004.
There will always be debate by the masses
But Sean is trying to get a line in the sand and needs 

Again I believe there will always be overlap periods. You could start Mid at 89 and finish Old at 89 and let the owner decide where they post it/send it for judging

[skidmark]

Here is the definitive ANSWER, no ifs buts maybes...I HAVE THE SOLUTION TO THIS CRISIS.....

1987-1990: bikes possessing 1 or more of the following will be categorised "Mid School":
-S&M badge
-Dropouts 4mm or thicker
-Bashguard

I'd imagine few members, myself included, actually know how much work the whole thing requires, nor what resources are actually available so it's difficult to offer help...but I reckon some leeway is needed 

[OrgasmDonor]

Here is the definitive ANSWER, no ifs buts maybes...I HAVE THE SOLUTION TO THIS CRISIS.....

1987-1990: bikes possessing 1 or more of the following will be categorised "Mid School":
-S&M badge
-Dropouts 4mm or thicker
-Bashguard

I'd imagine few members, myself included, actually know how much work the whole thing requires, nor what resources are actually available so it's difficult to offer help...but I reckon some leeway is needed 

once again, mid school is soley freestyle/street bikes?

a start year n end year vote off is the only way to identify what most would be happy with 

[bobbbbsy]

exactly .. not at all .. i think this thread is just making life harder !

[OrgasmDonor]

Can I suggest a vote off.
Have one vote off for the start year. I suggest the years 88,89,90
Have another vote off for the finish year. I suggest the years 2002, 2003, 2004.
There will always be debate by the masses
But Sean is trying to get a line in the sand and needs 

Again I believe there will always be overlap periods. You could start Mid at 89 and finish Old at 89 and let the owner decide where they post it/send it for judging

this set up has got to be the best way forward, puts the control in the users hands and the end result is dictated by the majority and taken outa mods n owners hands, job done 

[Gnarlyscoots]

You can tell when old school ended by the introduction of the parts coming along.

Anyone who says their '87 bike is mid school, is an old school wannabe 

[rodriguez]

Here is the definitive ANSWER, no ifs buts maybes...I HAVE THE SOLUTION TO THIS CRISIS.....

1987-1990: bikes possessing 1 or more of the following will be categorised "Mid School":
-S&M badge
-Dropouts 4mm or thicker
-Bashguard

I'd imagine few members, myself included, actually know how much work the whole thing requires, nor what resources are actually available so it's difficult to offer help...but I reckon some leeway is needed 

once again, mid school is soley freestyle/street bikes?

a start year n end year vote off is the only way to identify what most would be happy with 

Surely that's because freestyle bikes dominated the scene during the mid-school years so by your own logic as they were ridden by the majority thats what should be used as a benchmark for the section.

[Dannywhac]

Surely that's because freestyle bikes dominated the scene during the mid-school years so by your own logic as they were ridden by the majority thats what should be used as a benchmark for the section.

Agreed - that's not to say though that race bikes have no part in the debate. Lets not further dissolve the debate into a race/freestyle discussion.

Re-read now I'm sober what I posted earlier. Still sort of makes sense.

Personally just fook off the dates for the sections - people know what goes were ffs - there's bikes that are cross-over no matter what date you put on an imagined period for bmx. You either drop the whole 'school' thing and divide by decades or drop the dates for the periods. None of this voting on was it 87,88,89 or 90 ffs.

[OrgasmDonor]

Surely that's because freestyle bikes dominated the scene during the mid-school years so by your own logic as they were ridden by the majority thats what should be used as a benchmark for the section.

Agreed - that's not to say though that race bikes have no part in the debate. Lets not further dissolve the debate into a race/freestyle discussion.

Re-read now I'm sober what I posted earlier. Still sort of makes sense.

Personally just fook off the dates for the sections - people know what goes were ffs - there's bikes that are cross-over no matter what date you put on an imagined period for bmx. You either drop the whole 'school' thing and divide by decades or drop the dates for the periods. None of this voting on was it 87,88,89 or 90 ffs.

As been mentioned before, this would take logic and common sense, its not gonna work on here is it?

[adenough]

How would re-pop parts on an old school frame set be defined?

[skidmark]

Re-plop

[midschooljon]

How would re-pop parts on an old school frame set be defined?

As re pop old school parts.