Midschool date, year, era, decade etc. I need your input

[fischflo]

ok i have to go now, but i just wanted to suggest you all suggest THE major technical defining starting point for the MS and NS periods.

Example: 1'' headsets for New School.
Sean said before that there are also 1994 1'' headsets .........but one can argue that there is a later date where that became mainstream and then settle for that date as NS starting point.

[rodriguez]

i see what you mean - interesting -, but if one follwed this, we would have to agree on the periods. So what's the 89ish and 04ish devides' reasons for then?

That, and secondly ......what's in future, NS just goes on and on from 05ish ..with subcats emerging....? like f.ex New SchoolII from 12 on just as an example...? Like that?

89ish - Bashys introduced I'm being guided on this by what others are saying I would have said they were old school personally I would be more in favour of 90ish and the advent of the rider owned companies DBI, Hoffman etc.

04ish - US BB phased out, freewheels phased out in favour of cassette and introdution of micro gearing, 48h to 36h, movement towards light and strong as opposed to heavy and strong.

See how confusing it is for us?

None of you have agreed at all on anything, but something has to be agreed on.

We have to have definitive dates as that is the way we run things.


This is why I want some kind of decision to be made by you guys as this is the how we will be running the site.  If all the other 'schools' can be happy with pre 80's, 80-86 (as it is at the moment) etc then midschool better make a decision too.

I see there is a problem but it can't be difinitive around years IMO where the schools are concerned.

Old school didn't stop in 86,"golden age" of BMX finished in the UK around 86 but old school carried on, I'm 44 this year it stopped for me around 86/87, my brother is 40 it stopped for him around 89/90.

[Hmoon27]

Do it by weight, if the tubes are like scaffold poles and you struggle to pick it up.....it's Mid school

[stidds]

I see there is a problem but it can't be difinitive around years IMO where the schools are concerned.

Old school didn't stop in 86,"golden age" of BMX finished in the UK around 86 but old school carried on, I'm 44 this year it stopped for me around 86/87, my brother is 40 it stopped for him around 89/90.

And there we have the problem, different ages for different people, however we have to finalise it I'm afraid.  I have my site adminstrator hat on here and as a site we NEED to find a way of making sure we know what we are talking about.

Leaving it open to interpretation just isn't going to work, so what I need is for you guys to make some kind of decision about it, I know we are not going to get a 100% happy date/era/school etc but I am happy with a 80% happy one.

This is why I lean toward the 70s, 80s, 90's, 00's, 10's etc as we are only categorising a bike in its year/decade nothing about the 'school' it belongs to.

Of course there are some cross over bikes, but even then a 1989 is an 80's bike and a 1990 is a 90's bike, even if it is the same make and model, if it was built in a year it is very hard to say it doesn't belong to a particular decade.

[Dannywhac]

Totally agree with the above.

My opinion differs to others on this thread (I'd be all over 87-2001 if I had to say a date for me), but am fully aware that there's bikes made into the early 1990's that would still come under an 'old school' classification. There's bikes such as the S&M K9 or Mad Dog that are 87-89 that should technically be classified 'mid-school' for the rider owned reason alone.

The one inch caliper debates a bit moot as well as with bikes such as a WAL Riot sans lugs, or the all time classic mid icon the 1" lugless 1989-1994 Dirt Bike.

I'd be waaay happier with the decades, although if this is about the show and shine it won't effect me 

[skidmark]

I don't think anybody could be arsed to take on this task, BUT...since bikes are classed on the frame and little else, I suggest classing each frame model as either Mid or Old school regardless of year.

Then there'd be a reference list for everything to be classed more accurately, based on peoples votes for each model.

I just ate a giant Galaxy bar 

[OllyHall]

90's= mid school

[ED209]

I don't know why this is specifically in the mid-school section, for example, the end of vintage and the beginning of old school is also a huge grey area in my opinion.

I can see what people are saying about whole 'schools' thing meaningless but thats just the way it is, the hobby developed out of a group of people having an interest in 'old school' bmx which to us was the golden age of BMX what came before and after has just been tacked on and I think we are stuck with them and overtime the parameters will change, nothing should be set in stone.

I'd go for:-

Vintage Pre 79ish

Old School 80ish - 89ish

Mid-school 90ish - 04ish

New School 05ish on

There will be cross overs and it's up to the entrant and the organisers to sort it out sensibly, using criteria like year the model was introduced and then the year the model was changed, for example 1988 Haro Master is old school 1989 Haro Master bashguard is mid school.

Using decades is the easy way out but it's also meaningless and lacks sole ignoring how the hobby came about in the first place.

Please just use the classifications for the S&S and let the forum continue the way it does with things finding their place.

FFS don't listen to Ed he's been harranging people in the mid school section put tan wall tyres on bikes that really should have black walls because of his black wall phobia   

harranging PMSL 

[In2bmx]

90's 

[fischflo]

Old school = 1inch threaded headset, caliper only brake and pre 2000, everything else is contemporary BMX, until the next major change in design n tech outdates what at present recognised as the norm

and anyway, does it reeeeeeeally fookin matter as long as you can find what yer lookin for 

i meant 1 1/8th of course
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vintage      72-79                      (1972="On Any Sunday")
OS             80-88                      (1inch threaded headset, caliper only brake)
Mid School 89-04ish                  (89= Bashguards) (rider owned companies)
New School 04ish-present           (04ish="US BB phased out, freewheels phased out in favour of cassette and introdution of micro gearing, 48h to 36h, movement towards light and strong as opposed to heavy and strong.")
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i kinda like the idea of categories set around points of time where innovations broke through.
I do like the simplicity of the decade-idea and the fact that this corresponds with the 'experience'; but these categories really should be more about the bikes themselves..........

Can we agree on the timetable above? I guess its worth elaborating.

[john4130]

Old school = 1inch threaded headset, caliper only brake and pre 2000, everything else is contemporary BMX, until the next major change in design n tech outdates what at present recognised as the norm

and anyway, does it reeeeeeeally fookin matter as long as you can find what yer lookin for 

i meant 1 1/8th of course
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vintage      72-79                      (1972="On Any Sunday")
OS             80-88                      (1inch threaded headset, caliper only brake)
Mid School 89-04ish                  (89= Bashguards)
New School 04ish-present           (04ish="US BB phased out, freewheels phased out in favour of cassette and introdution of micro gearing, 48h to 36h, movement towards light and strong as opposed to heavy and strong.")
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i kinda like the idea of categories set around points of time where innovations broke through.
I do like the simplicity of the decade-idea and the fact that this corresponds with the 'experience'; but these categories really should be more about the bikes themselves..........

Can we agree on the timetable above? I guess its worth elaborating.

i would agree with these dates. to be a little more specific, mid school began on 6th of june 1989. FACT 

[Gary72]

Mid school in my opinion ended with Mid BBs and intergrated headsets
Old school in my opinion ended with U brakes.
There will always be crossover periods, there will always be the pioneers of  improvements.
BMX has always been evolving, It will always be evolving.
If you want me to pick years then
Vintage upto 79/80
Old school 80/81 to 88/89
Mid school 89/90 to 02/03
I have a 2001 FBM Night Train, I class that as Mid school, US Bottom bracket and press fit headset cups.
You are never going to please everyone

[fischflo]

hm...ad lugs .........when did they become popular standard? .....perhaps really more defining than Bashguards?

i would agree with these dates. to be a little more specific, mid school began on 6th of june 1989. FACT 

that will then just be entered into the timetable.............. we're like wiki

[Dannywhac]

hm...ad lugs .........when did they become popular standard? .....perhaps really more defining than Bashguards?

First appeared in 1987 on bmxs. Not popular until around 1994/5 (as in there weren't a crap load at parks back then until those years)

[nosepickben]

Mid = 1990's. That's it.

[fischflo]

yeah.... The ad lugs example, cheers Danny, shows the problem. AD lugs might be more defining, but that date 1994/95 just makes things more complicated. So you'd settle for Bashguards, just for the sake of 'innovation'-basedness, because it's closer to 1990.

Also the problem arises -been said before-: innovations aren't regular -> different sized groups, making the competition unnecessarily random, unfair...

[Dannywhac]

Exactly Fisch - I reckon for show and shine purposes, separate into decades. Forum wise just leave the mid school dates blank and increase Old School to '89. That way all them there S&M MDs/DB's and so on from the late 80's can still go in Mid etc.

The 'BMX Dark Ages' was more what was going on in freestyle and rider owned companies than if ya bike had lugs/1 1/8" headset etc.

[OllyHall]

Ffs 90's end off!

[rodriguez]

Is this purely for the S&S or will the titles of the sections be changed too?

Last time we had this debate the point was made that the people using the mid section are happy enough the way it is and I reckon that still stands, the longer this thread goes on the less likely that's going to be the case, it's the best mid-school section on the interweb and now it's just being ruined.

If moderators or judges don't know what section a BMX should be in maybe they are in the wrong role.

Take the years off the sections on the site and do the S&S at milton keynes using decades, job done. 

[stidds]

Is this purely for the S&S or will the titles of the sections be changed too?

Last time we had this debate the point was made that the people using the mid section are happy enough the way it is and I reckon that still stands, the longer this thread goes on the less likely that's going to be the case, it's the best mid-school section on the interweb and now it's just being ruined.

If moderators or judges don't know what section a BMX should be in maybe they are in the wrong role.

Take the years off the sections on the site and do the S&S at milton keynes using decades, job done. 

Well you are 100% wrong, people are obviously not happy with the way it is as everybody keeps bitching about it.

So instead of saying that is the way things are I am saying you guys decide.

This is not just for S&S and MK the sections on radbmx, the BOTM, BOTY etc will all run this way with the dates/eras/schools/decades etc.

To add a little snidey remark about judges and moderators makes me want to say fook you all and I will decide.

We are asked time and time again to let the members make more decisions about the way the site is run and I put this really important item out there and all you can do is make a narky comment about people that spend a lot of time and effort on running this site and MK.

I am not leaving the dates open for people to decide themselves as a site admin we need and require a decision, if you cannot help with that decision then there is no need to comment or join in.


So to the rest of you, lets have your ideas and solutions.

[rodriguez]

Is this purely for the S&S or will the titles of the sections be changed too?

Last time we had this debate the point was made that the people using the mid section are happy enough the way it is and I reckon that still stands, the longer this thread goes on the less likely that's going to be the case, it's the best mid-school section on the interweb and now it's just being ruined.

If moderators or judges don't know what section a BMX should be in maybe they are in the wrong role.

Take the years off the sections on the site and do the S&S at milton keynes using decades, job done. 

Well you are 100% wrong, people are obviously not happy with the way it is as everybody keeps bitching about it.

So instead of saying that is the way things are I am saying you guys decide.

This is not just for S&S and MK the sections on radbmx, the BOTM, BOTY etc will all run this way with the dates/eras/schools/decades etc.

To add a little snidey remark about judges and moderators makes me want to say fook you all and I will decide.

We are asked time and time again to let the members make more decisions about the way the site is run and I put this really important item out there and all you can do is make a narky comment about people that spend a lot of time and effort on running this site and MK.

I am not leaving the dates open for people to decide themselves as a site admin we need and require a decision, if you cannot help with that decision then there is no need to comment or join in.


So to the rest of you, lets have your ideas and solutions.

I've tried to make a decent contribution to the subject and back it up with reasons to justify my suggestion as opposed to just feelings.

I wasn't making a snidey remark about the moderators/judges which was meant as a jibe I was making a serious point.

[Miley]

Sean-do you think we could lose the "it's a bit dark and smells of men" most of my stuff is of the era in discussion but it pi55es me off every time I read it!
Cheers
Miles

[Gnarlyscoots]

I would like to suggest:-

Vintage = Early 70's - September 1979

Old = October 1979 - September 1989

Mid = October 1989 - September 2003

New = October 2003 - Present

 

[stidds]

Is this purely for the S&S or will the titles of the sections be changed too?

Last time we had this debate the point was made that the people using the mid section are happy enough the way it is and I reckon that still stands, the longer this thread goes on the less likely that's going to be the case, it's the best mid-school section on the interweb and now it's just being ruined.

If moderators or judges don't know what section a BMX should be in maybe they are in the wrong role.

Take the years off the sections on the site and do the S&S at milton keynes using decades, job done. 

Well you are 100% wrong, people are obviously not happy with the way it is as everybody keeps bitching about it.

So instead of saying that is the way things are I am saying you guys decide.

This is not just for S&S and MK the sections on radbmx, the BOTM, BOTY etc will all run this way with the dates/eras/schools/decades etc.

To add a little snidey remark about judges and moderators makes me want to say fook you all and I will decide.

We are asked time and time again to let the members make more decisions about the way the site is run and I put this really important item out there and all you can do is make a narky comment about people that spend a lot of time and effort on running this site and MK.

I am not leaving the dates open for people to decide themselves as a site admin we need and require a decision, if you cannot help with that decision then there is no need to comment or join in.


So to the rest of you, lets have your ideas and solutions.

I've tried to make a decent contribution to the subject and back it up with reasons to justify my suggestion as opposed to just feelings.

I wasn't making a snidey remark about the moderators/judges which was meant as a jibe I was making a serious point.

Well it was a snidey remark, mods and admin do a lot of work on site and we need to know something about everything.  We are not in such a position to know a lot about a small subject.

Let me tell you about judging S&S at MK, I have done it twice and the last time it took me and the other judges 4 hours to go around every bike and find winners, runners up etc etc.

That is 4 hours that I didn't spend with my bikes, mates, wife, racing, having fun, I (and the other 3 of us) spent those 4 hours walking around in searing heat putting a load of time and effort into making sure people were rewarded for their efforts.

Not to mention the other 30 jobs I had to do that day apart from judge the S&S. 

So to say that judges/mods should know what bikes go where when you guys that build the bikes don't even seem to know is a smack in the face.  Judges on the day have better things to do than to sort out the mess that is midschool.


To be honest at this rate I will be doing one of two things with the midschool section... 1) keep it as it is and delete any mention of date and era in the future with no notice or apology or 2) delete the whole section and call everything old school.

At present I am leaning toward option 2.

[stidds]

Sean-do you think we could lose the "it's a bit dark and smells of men" most of my stuff is of the era in discussion but it pi55es me off every time I read it!
Cheers
Miles

I completely agree Miles, I have never liked that comment.

Changed now.