Bolt thru bollox

[gossa]

Seeing 20mm bolt through forks now from S&M, Supercross etc.

Anyone running them? I say trend bollox. Can't see how it would be any stiffer than a regular set up (stiffness is the claim). Can see a bit of weight saving with the right hub/axle but no enough to warrant the cost to change it all out.

Bolt thru back ends are also a waste of time until frame manufacturers wake up and start speccing oversized BB shells like the BB386 which would provide a stiffer BB junction.

Just my 2p on current product 'developments'...

[not johndub71]

I can't see it on a rigid fork unless the fork is lighter and considerable weaker without it. If it was a suspension fork then the stiffness at the hub would certainly help. Sometimes manufacturers like to re engineer the wheel for no reason.

[gossa]

It made a difference in MTB forks as they did slop about a bit but a rigid chromo fork can't benefit from being stiffened up. Even if it improved the tracking by 5%, you wouldn't be able to feel that.

Still races are won by such marginal gains, maybe that 5% would be the 100th of a second in a tmetrial?

Not convinced, anyone riding these?

[Devilock]

Manufacturers need to convince customers to buy new products.

[Dingobmxer]

I had Odyssey Xtro forks and hub set up on my cruiser and it was noticably stiffer especially on the gate


Dingo

[gossa]

I had Odyssey Xtro forks and hub set up on my cruiser and it was noticably stiffer especially on the gate


Dingo

Really Ding? What torsionally? I need to have a ride I reckon.....

[Devilock]

If it had big advantages in this discipline manufacturers would have been running them ages ago.

Not the same I know but Fox 40RC2's are quite stiff & I was using them for awhile then switched to Bos Rare which are 36mm & aren't as stiff but the tracking was considerably improved.

[midschooljon]

If it had big advantages in this discipline manufacturers would have been running them ages ago.

I disagree. The manufacturers didn't adopt it because they simply didn't have to. The BMX market is far to small for guys like Mavic and DT to bother with, and thats why they have never made wheels for BMX. As such the people who have made BMX parts have been happy to keep on churning out old tech product as they face little competition from the big guys who focus on road and MTB. It only takes a few bold brands to step out of the old mindset and embrace the broader and better developed standars for things to beging to change. S&M and Supercross have done this and now that they have I think you will see it catch on very quickly.

I can vouch for it being stiffer. As mentioned particularly noticeable on the gate and in the corners. Its been an industry standard for some time with hub manufacturers so I dont see it as a fad. Im sure in the next year or so you will be hard pressed to find a high end race bike without it. Wont be long before race bikes adopt wider (mtb spec) rear hubs as well in my opinion. And with that will come a much wider choice of hubs, wheels, disk brakes, etc. The technology that brands like mavic and DT swiss put into wheels is very impressive, and makes the stuff in the current BMX market look primitive. It can only be good for racing if the industry opens up to these new standards and uses the same tech as MTB. Bikes will get lighter and faster for sure.

[Devilock]

If it had big advantages in this discipline manufacturers would have been running them ages ago.

I disagree. The manufacturers didn't adopt it because they simply didn't have to. The BMX market is far to small for guys like Mavic and DT to bother with, and thats why they have never made wheels for BMX. As such the people who have made BMX parts have been happy to keep on churning out old tech product as they face little competition from the big guys who focus on road and MTB. It only takes a few bold brands to step out of the old mindset and embrace the broader and better developed standars for things to beging to change. S&M and Supercross have done this and now that they have I think you will see it catch on very quickly.

You have misconstrued that statement- I am saying that too; I was encapsulating all aspects in a laconic form.

[midschooljon]

You have misconstrued that statement- I am saying that too; I was encapsulating all aspects in a laconic form.

 

[Dark Diggler]

DT make wheels and Mavic make/made rims for bmx

[midschooljon]

DT make wheels and Mavic make/made rims for bmx

Yes they do, but DT's BMX wheels are made by Sun Ringle and just use DT hardware like closures and lock nuts. Last time I checked they didnt even rebrand the rims. Mavics offering is even poorer with them just selling  rebranded Formula product. Its not the same as a full blown line of wheels using their latest technology. What Im saying is that if the BMX industry adopts the MTB hub standards we then open ourselves up to a proper set of 20" Deemx wheels or similar. And every time they move forward with new tech BMX has access to it right away (perhaps a short delay for the 20" rims to go into production). There really is no reason to hold on to the old wheel system for BMX racing.  

[bof]

Dubbers back. 

[ron burgundy]

If it had big advantages in this discipline manufacturers would have been running them ages ago.

I disagree. The manufacturers didn't adopt it because they simply didn't have to. The BMX market is far to small for guys like Mavic and DT to bother with, and thats why they have never made wheels for BMX. As such the people who have made BMX parts have been happy to keep on churning out old tech product as they face little competition from the big guys who focus on road and MTB. It only takes a few bold brands to step out of the old mindset and embrace the broader and better developed standars for things to beging to change. S&M and Supercross have done this and now that they have I think you will see it catch on very quickly.

I can vouch for it being stiffer. As mentioned particularly noticeable on the gate and in the corners. Its been an industry standard for some time with hub manufacturers so I dont see it as a fad. Im sure in the next year or so you will be hard pressed to find a high end race bike without it. Wont be long before race bikes adopt wider (mtb spec) rear hubs as well in my opinion. And with that will come a much wider choice of hubs, wheels, disk brakes, etc. The technology that brands like mavic and DT swiss put into wheels is very impressive, and makes the stuff in the current BMX market look primitive. It can only be good for racing if the industry opens up to these new standards and uses the same tech as MTB. Bikes will get lighter and faster for sure.

What set up did you try?

[stidds]

Bolt through hubs are nothing new in bmx, my Cook Bros hubs from 1980 and have bolt through axles ok they are not 20mm, but still are bolt through.

[Dark Diggler]

I meant DT 240s race hubs/wheels and the rims were branded

http://www.dtswiss.com/Components/Hubs-MTB/BMX-FW




I do agree with you about holding on to old ways though  

[ron burgundy]

Oooh nice

[midschooljon]

What set up did you try?

Niether of the 2 mentioned above actually. I rode a Sinz bolt through fork / hub combo. Granted it was only 2 gates and 3 laps of the track but I was very impressed.

[ron burgundy]

What set up did you try?

Niether of the 2 mentioned above actually. I rode a Sinz bolt through fork / hub combo. Granted it was only 2 gates and 3 laps of the track but I was very impressed.

What part of the set up made you impressed?

I've never tried a 20mm set up, but I can't see how it would be a big improvement over a high quality wheel build using a modern high pressure race tyre in a rigid fork.

[ron burgundy]

and what bars did the bike have fitted? if you say Renthal...

[midschooljon]

What part of the set up made you impressed?

I've never tried a 20mm set up, but I can't see how it would be a big improvement over a high quality wheel build using a modern high pressure race tyre in a rigid fork.

The lack of flex is noticeable. When balancing on the gate it almost feels harder to balance because its so much stiffer. Im not the best at balancing on a gate so have a bit of bar wobble if I have to sit there for a while. The little flex I do have in the front end means the front wheel stays in the same spot even if my bars flex left and right a little. On the bike I rode the stiffer front meant my front wheel was shifting on the gate when on my bike it normally wouldn't have. Im sure if you are a seasoned racer this isnt an issue, but for me you could feel the effect of the stiffness. Same thing in the corders, you point the bike and it goes. There was very little give.

Im not an engineer so wont pretend that I can give you a scientific explination.   But you can feel it when you ride it.

I cant recall the bars. It was a Intense bike with what looked like mostly Sinz parts on it, but I would be guessing if I told you what brand or model the bars were.

[ron burgundy]

Sounds interesting. What are you comparing the set up against?

It seems like it's a buy it and and try it, but pointless if you don't run a stiff set up to start with. I can't see it having an effect on my 125r.

[gossa]

Hmm, this is an interesting one, possibly a bit of placebo going on with it to. No doubt that it is stiffer but I'm struggling to see how it can be any stiffer to be noticeable when there is zero noticeable flex in a decent fork/hub set up. It doesn't matter if it's 20% stiffer if the extra 20% is in a lab test, there's no tangible benefit to the rider?

On comments ref wheels, I doubt we will see BMX frames going to 135mm dropouts, you only need that width for the multitude of gears found on MTB's and they would have to splay out radically along the stay to avoid 180mm crank interference.

I'm off to Interbike in Vegas on Saturday so I'll see if I can ride some bikes and feed back.

[midschooljon]

Sounds interesting. What are you comparing the set up against?

It seems like it's a buy it and and try it, but pointless if you don't run a stiff set up to start with. I can't see it having an effect on my 125r.

Of course the difference one feels will be relative to their own bike.   Im running ODSY race forks, S&M stem, S&M bars. Best bet for you is give it a try and see how you like it. If you dont then no need to spend any money.  

On comments ref wheels, I doubt we will see BMX frames going to 135mm dropouts, you only need that width for the multitude of gears found on MTB's and they would have to splay out radically along the stay to avoid 180mm crank interference.

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression Rinderknech rode a 135 back end BMC at the olympics. Certainly looks that way from this pic. There are a few other pics floating around the web that also suggest a wider back end, but like I said Im just going off my observations and havent seen any literature on the bike he rode.  

[gossa]

I walked past that bike last week at Eurobike in Germany, I should have had a gander!

Adding 25mm at the dropouts would have to make the stays flare out as I said and that'll be a nightmare for crank clearance. I'll see if that bike is at Interbike and have a proper look.