Author Topic: S&M WTF (Read 3446 times)

Peter J · « **on:** October 13, 2011, 02:39 PM »

Anyone on here got one or know anyone with one ?

Female Lugs

Shorter Head Tube

http://www.sandmbikes.com/_product_63772/Frame-_WTF_Frame

HEYWOOD BMX · « **Reply #1 on:** October 13, 2011, 03:01 PM »

Looks OK.KisBikeCo already have forks out with the same dropouts.Don`t like the shorter headtube-fork steerers are already stupidly short with no room for height adjustment so manufacturers can all out-lightweight each other...

Peter J · « **Reply #2 on:** October 13, 2011, 03:05 PM »

Would you be able to fit a gyro or is it designed for "normal" rear bake set up

And by normal I mean with a foookin back brake and not using the bottom of my plimsoles to stop me

kev-s · « **Reply #3 on:** October 13, 2011, 03:22 PM »

i was tempted to get a wtf if i couldnt have another dirtbike

u can run a gyro on them, as for the height adjustment u can just run bigger bars and/or a top loading stem to compensate

the wtf was first shown at interbike in 2009

the kis forks and dark frame prototype/demo was first shown in aug 2010

though im sure the idea will have be used before somewhere by someone

wont be surprised if more companies release frame/forks like this

SaMAlex · « **Reply #4 on:** October 13, 2011, 03:24 PM »

This frame has been "out" for quite a while. They posted up pics of it ages ago and then tested them for quite a while.

The idea of the shorter fork/head tube is so there is less leverage from the front wheel, making the front end stronger. A nice idea, as long as you dont mind a low top tube. It also means you can run a low "standover height" but the top tube looks tidier cos it doesn't slope as much (again, cool if you want a low frame).

Quote from: VOIVOD on October 13, 2011, 03:01 PM

Don`t like the shorter headtube-fork steerers are already stupidly short with no room for height adjustment

There aint much room to move your stem up on most BMX forks but there are stems of different heights, and LOADS of different bars. Set the stem up with no spacers and get the height bars you want.

Quote from: Peter J on October 13, 2011, 03:05 PM

Would you be able to fit a gyro or is it designed for "normal" rear bake set up

I would imagine they wont work with a gyro, not sure tho.

Quote from: VOIVOD on October 13, 2011, 03:01 PM

Looks OK.KisBikeCo already have forks out with the same dropouts.

Kiss have forks AND FRAME with similar, enclosed dropouts (which came out after the WTF, although im sure they were working on it before they saw the WTF). Their first frames had no adjustment in them but it didnt work cos you have to have some movement to get the chain tight. Now their frame looks like the WTF; enclosed but with some movement.

I have got some custom S&M Pitchcfork XLTs with the enclosed dropouts. I love them, SO nice!

I think the WTF frame is great, loads of new ideas, and trying some cool things .... BUT if you want a higher frame, and a gyro (and maybe even a brake at all) it might not be the frame for you. Its like its at the opposite end of the (top end) market to the current Dirtbike frame.

SaMAlex · « **Reply #5 on:** October 13, 2011, 03:25 PM »

Thanks Kev, for clearing up the Gyro thing .... and for saying much of what i said, before I said it!

kev-s · « **Reply #6 on:** October 13, 2011, 03:28 PM »

lol no worries

see here for more info and a pic of one with a gyro

http://www.sandmbikes.com/_blog/News/tag/WTF/

kev-s · « **Reply #7 on:** October 13, 2011, 03:29 PM »

one thing i did wonder though is could u run a front brake on them?

SaMAlex · « **Reply #8 on:** October 13, 2011, 03:35 PM »

At the moment its only the Dirtbike frame that comes drilled for gyro tabs

I guess you could get a custom one, or drill it yourself

You'd defo need to get custom WFT forks made with brake mounts.
And with the shorter steer tube, you'd be able to run a shorter brake cable!

kev-s · « **Reply #9 on:** October 13, 2011, 03:50 PM »

gyro tab holes arent a prob but would a front brake and/or brake cable foul the tyre as on the wtf fork it looks like there isnt much room in that area

if there wasnt any dirtbikes left then it was gonna be a wtf but they had a few still in the warehouse, the last batch

Peter J · « **Reply #10 on:** October 13, 2011, 03:56 PM »

Thats a snug fit

$:-\$

Could just about get a rizla paper between the tyre and forks

You'd be buggered if you run over some dog poo........you'd end up with a poo shower

Must admit, now I know you can add a gyro I like it more.......just a shame about a front brake

SaMAlex · « **Reply #11 on:** October 13, 2011, 04:01 PM »

Oh Yeah, totally. I didnt think of the tyre clearance. $:-\$

I love how those forks look. They have essence of 80s Hutch with that bend at the top. After looking at the WFT front end and the front wheel clearance on the frame and forks, a normal frame looks so .... sloppy and gappy. The WTF is all tight and neat, like a custom build chopper (motorbike) or something. Really cool.

I didnt get one cos i like a higher frame, (Id have to have even MORE seat post showing with a low frame!

) but they are very nice.

SaMAlex · « **Reply #12 on:** October 13, 2011, 04:12 PM »

Yeah, it will be a twitchy frame.
Its like the FIT Benny L: Steep head angle and short back end for VERY New school riding.

Peter J · « **Reply #13 on:** October 13, 2011, 04:15 PM »

Quote from: S&MAlex on October 13, 2011, 04:12 PM

Yeah, it will be a twitchy frame.

Thats my mind made up

Back to the drawing board

fugazi · « **Reply #14 on:** October 13, 2011, 04:15 PM »

Got to say I don't like the front end on those at all, especially the forks.

SaMAlex · « **Reply #15 on:** October 13, 2011, 04:21 PM »

Its an out-and-out "NS" frame, for sure. Its all about Nose wheelies, "popped" 3 hops, B's and Whips out of Manuals, and not really ever going very fast. I like that S&M had the balls to take things as far as they did on that frame, but it sure aint for everyone.

Oh, and you have to use the WTF frame and forks together. As well as the frame headtube and fork steer tube both being shorter, the fork legs are 1/2 a inch shorter as well and the frame has been designed to accommodate that. Using WTF forks on a normal frame would make the front end drop and cause it to be steeper than designed, or using normal forks on a WTF frame would make it higher and mellower than designed.

Dark Diggler · « **Reply #16 on:** October 13, 2011, 04:33 PM »

Quote from: Peter J on October 13, 2011, 04:15 PM

Quote from: S&MAlex on October 13, 2011, 04:12 PM
Yeah, it will be a twitchy frame.

Thats my mind made up

Back to the drawing board

38 Special Pete, a do everything bike, Track, trails and park. They are not twitchy in the slightest. Failing that Deluxe with a v brake, same gig, do everything bike

SaMAlex · « **Reply #17 on:** October 13, 2011, 04:40 PM »

38 special are great for a race frame, and would be great on the trails .... but:

Long back end so stuff on the back wheel will be hard and it'll spin slow
V brake so cant use a gyro
Wouldnt really wanna use pegs on the dropouts
Euro BB so limited with Cranks (race only really)

..... $:-\$

Dark Diggler · « **Reply #18 on:** October 13, 2011, 04:48 PM »

Agree on pegs but my bars spin twice and the brake works amazing (linear slic-DXR v brake), you can run any 19/22mm spindle cranks with a threaded BB shell (I run profiles) and with outboard cups (using spanish bearings) you dont get the short bearing lifespan anymore.
I hear you though, it is a race/trails number by design

Peter J · « **Reply #19 on:** October 13, 2011, 04:48 PM »

Quote from: Ol' Diggler on October 13, 2011, 04:33 PM

38 Special Pete, a do everything bike, Track, trails and park. They are not twitchy in the slightest. Failing that Deluxe with a v brake, same gig, do everything bike

So it would be ideal for a fat middle aged man who cannot ride and spends most of the time sat on it talking cod shite or falling off them

On S&M's information super highway site it says it’s a race bike

as your aware my knowledge of N/S is unparallel but is it like the old days when a race bike had race geometry and a freestyle bike had well.................freestyle geometry

I want a frame for a well let’s be honest a fooookin novice first time I ever went on a ramp in my life was 2010.......at the age of 36 !!!

kev-s · « **Reply #20 on:** October 13, 2011, 05:23 PM »

Quote from: Glen on October 13, 2011, 04:04 PM

Kev, you need to remember the WTF and dirt bike have very different geometry so it would probably take some getting used to if you went for one.

WTF = 75.5 HT angle
WTF = 11.4 BB height

DirtBike = 74.5 HT angle
Dirtbike = 11.8 BB height.

I think the WTF would be twitchy as hell with that head tube angle. Thats probably why the BB has been lowered, to compensate for that.
I like the closed dropouts and the idea of a stiffer front end (not that its needed unless it prone to flex due to thin tubing) on the WTF but not the geometry.

tbh i can get used to most frames quite quickly, currently riding a mcneil gary young mk1 till my new dirtbike frame arrives and within 4 hours of riding it ive got most tricks down on it and it feels comfy even though its half an inch shorter in the top tube than the dirtbike and a 1/4 shorter in the rear

ive even asked for my new dirtbike to be a 20.5 instead of my usual 21in tt

john4130 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 13, 2011, 05:34 PM »

if you had brake mounts on those wtf forks, you could run the cable out the hole at the bottom of the stearer.

TwoBobRob · « **Reply #22 on:** October 13, 2011, 05:36 PM »

Peter - to be honest mate, just buy anything you fancy and get riding. You've little to compare to, so don't worry about it!

You'll chop and change a bit as your riding progresses and then you'll be able to make an informed decision. Pretty much what we all did.

All that said though - the Bonedeth Creepozoid that Glen suggested is damn near perfect mate. It's right shape and size for a grown up and it has no surprises in it's geometry or design. Can't go wrong really. And you know it's designed to go fast......

Peter J · « **Reply #23 on:** October 13, 2011, 05:49 PM »

Quote from: TwoBobRob on October 13, 2011, 05:36 PM

Peter - to be honest mate, just buy anything you fancy and get riding. You've little to compare to, so don't worry about it!

You'll chop and change a bit as your riding progresses and then you'll be able to make an informed decision. Pretty much what we all did.

All that said though - the Bonedeth Creepozoid that Glen suggested is damn near perfect mate. It's right shape and size for a grown up and it has no surprises in it's geometry or design. Can't go wrong really. And you know it's designed to go fast......

Sound advise young man

One question................why are all the S&M's 14mm drop out's