Author Topic: The new S+M frames (Read 3971 times)

Glen · « **on:** February 23, 2011, 06:11 PM »

They look pretty, but it seems to me that they are really going beyond whats actually practical in favour of weigh reduction.
Look at all the new frames, ATF, Randy Brown, Cameron Wood and the BTM.
They all have the same if not smaller tubing as the LTF, now the Cam Wood frame even has a tapered top tube!

Are they really that obsessed with weight? I personally wouldn't ride any of the frames mentioned above in fear of breaking it like I did to my LTF and that didnt take much $:-\$

Some specs regarding tubing.
LTF:
TOP TUBE: 1.375x.045-.028-.035
DOWN TUBE: 1.375x.045-.028-.035

The ATF has an even smaller top tube and thats what they base all their frames on now and as mentioned the Cam Wood has a tapered top tube.
The weight savings are negligible but the strength reduction isnt!

A mate of mine snapped his 2010 Cardona's down tube clean in one go. He 180'd off a 5ft drop to flat and snap. It looked like it had been sawed it was that clean.
The rear also had cracked by the seat stay junction.

It seems these frames would be fine if you weigh about 60kgs and only ride 5 foot mini ramps.

I hope a sensible balance between strength and weight is reached soon. Thank fook they still offer the dirt bike, I wouldn't ride any of the others.

pickle · « **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2011, 06:27 PM »

hmmmmm nothing like the frame i just got then.....that is sturdy as fook! and weighs about 6.5 LBS

Betty · « **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2011, 06:56 PM »

My son cracked his LTF on the seat stay welds...

I reckon they're strong enough for most riders

Nowt's indestructable...

madmike-bmx · « **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2011, 08:04 PM »

ah ill stick with my good old sunday OG frame , any frame that can stand the Austin Church gap will do me for a very very long time ahhaha

Dark Diggler · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2011, 08:29 PM »

Frames breaking

fugazi · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:06 PM »

Got to agree with You Glen, I was amazed at how "spindly" the ATF looked, even more so when I put it up against a V2 Blackbike which is only about a 1/4 pound heavier.

Peter J · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:50 PM »

Show's I'm too old school........took me ages to work out how the wheels would fit on this one

http://www.sandmbikes.com/_product_63772/Frame-_WTF_Frame

and £550...............I thought old school was expensive

kev-s · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2011, 11:28 PM »

i think it will eventually level out a bit and most frames will be 5lbs, i wont trust any sub 5lb frame for my style of riding and my heavy landing style

my l.a.f died, pretty much folded the down tube flat in the centre, hence why i went for a dirtbike and when that cracked i went for another dirtbike as i know anything less wouldnt last me

aslong as s&m offer a 5lb frame we will be ok glen

if not then i may have to go back to the darkside and get another sta

squigly · « **Reply #8 on:** February 24, 2011, 09:55 AM »

Female axles ? WTF indeed... I'm so old feeling right now....

welsh denny · « **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2011, 07:20 PM »

a mate of mine got a new custom built set up s & m in 2008. snapped doing a 180 after only 2 weeks- this guy is smooth and doesn't really go for big things. as he spent over a grand at the shop (mail order) he wanted another frame. shop had frame back and messed him about, even took calls to chris moeller himself and was getting no where. he got lawyers invoved and shop quickly gave him a different brand frame of his choice. he vowed never to use s & m again.
he reckons most people would have backed down but as he had spent so much of his money he wasn't giving up. good on him i reckon.
nothing is unbreakable but 2 weeks of light use.

sorry s & m users.

Peter J · « **Reply #10 on:** February 24, 2011, 07:46 PM »

I'm not up on new school stuff but I thought S&M was really popular and good quality all handmade and that

So why are there so many people saying stuff breaks etc etc....

Surely other manufactures stuff breaks as well

kev-s · « **Reply #11 on:** February 24, 2011, 10:19 PM »

having had first hand experince of making a warranty claim with s&m all i can say is i had no trouble and was offered any stock frame of my choice, my claim could have been sorted within 5 days but me being the awkward bast@rd i am i wanted anohter dirtbike which ment a 5 week wait for it to be built and shipped

it is a bit worrying the amount of s&m's that seem to be snapping lately, they must be seeing this in the warranty dept and hopefully taking note

Peter J · « **Reply #12 on:** February 24, 2011, 10:39 PM »

But surely other manufactures frames snap as well....I hate to say this but as they are the best bike manufactures in the world.........I recall a TJ's Floval losing its front end when he bumped a jump

If you think of the 1000’s of S&M frames out there they must be about the same as others....and the way some of the “kids” abuse them with big daft jumps its not surprising.

I know frame technology and materials a supposed to be better but how many old schools freestyle bikes bent BITD

As I’ve stated I know fooooookin all about new school but its like owt that pushes the envelope with design whether it be materials or shaving weight there will always be a trade off and you should accept the risk and ride accordingly.

I’m a rather stout fella.......fat foooker some would say.....

...so I’d go for a “burly” made frame.....like an early new school one or whatever its a strong frame these days

kev-s · « **Reply #13 on:** February 24, 2011, 11:11 PM »

theres no doubt that other manufactuerers frames snap, nothing is indestructable, another reason could be why we are seeing so many s&m's with problems is because how many are now produced

say back in the 90's s&m made 100 frames per month and out of those hundred they allowed for a 3% failure/return rate which would be 3 frames for every 100 they made each month

now fast forward to today and say they make 1000 frames a month and still allow for a 3% failure/return rate, that means 30 frames could fail/be returned

im sure the fad of making things light as possible isnt helping but the qualtiy could be just as good as its always been but more failures are being noticed due to the sheer volumes now being made

madmike-bmx · « **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2011, 08:57 AM »

i think we should all go and get this! will out last any "newschool" bike and a ,lot lighter

TwoBobRob · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2011, 10:36 AM »

Everything is breakable. Anyone remember Stuart King breaking STAs? (we'll brush over the rumour he did it deliberately...)

If the materials, design and construction are competent, that's the best we should hope for. Real world.

I ride an LTF basically because of the following;

a) They're lovely to look at
b) It came to me as a bargain
c) I'm a fairly smooth rider - no street
d) I'm a massive pussy who doesn't do owt big......

If any of the above didn't apply I'd be looking for a 5lb frame with some meat in it. Could very well be a S&M though, nowt wrong with em. Again, real world.

fugazi · « **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2011, 01:04 PM »

S&M rule, I'm not saying the frames are shoddily made or anything, the fit & finish, welding & craftmanship etc is amazing, it's just I can't get My head round how small the tubing looked when I dragged the ATF out the box, a race or flat frame looks lardy in comparison

lyons · « **Reply #17 on:** February 27, 2011, 12:15 PM »

I know the person glen reffered to in the first postas well, and saw the incident. It wasnt even a 5 ft drop, it was only about 1.5 ft. And hes not a a particularly harsh rider. It had actually cracked at the seatstay bridges as well, but that wasnt noticed till later.

A worryingly light frame - http://www.grindbmx.co.uk/fly-campillo-92-p.asp

john4130 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 16, 2011, 12:14 AM »

nothing is indestructable, it took 10 years before my standard lengthy broke. cracked the top and downtube about halfway round at the headtube. riding a lighter bike does feel better and it's probably better for your back and joints but there's a limit to how light without sacrificing strentgh. if people are that obsessed with weight they should empty their pockets of loose change, shave their legs and wear lycra shorts before they go riding.

Author Topic: The new S+M frames (Read 3971 times)

Glen

The new S+M frames

pickle

Re: The new S+M frames

Betty

Re: The new S+M frames

madmike-bmx

Re: The new S+M frames

Dark Diggler

Re: The new S+M frames

fugazi

Re: The new S+M frames

Peter J

Re: The new S+M frames

kev-s

Re: The new S+M frames

squigly

Re: The new S+M frames

welsh denny

Re: The new S+M frames

Peter J

Re: The new S+M frames

kev-s

Re: The new S+M frames

Peter J

Re: The new S+M frames

kev-s

Re: The new S+M frames

madmike-bmx

Re: The new S+M frames

TwoBobRob

Re: The new S+M frames

fugazi

Re: The new S+M frames

lyons

Re: The new S+M frames

john4130

Re: The new S+M frames